Are cracks in the Armoury System beginning to surface?

[AlexiaKidd]

Well, I personally think someone who did take the time to level multiple classes should indeed be far more effective than someone who leveled just one. That's absolutely fair, considering the nature of the Armoury System, and I personally don't see anything wrong with that.

Also, you DID bring up a good point about jobs. Indeed, depending on how it's done, there's the very real chance that a GLA with multiple classes leveled end up being a better thank than a Paladin GLA with limited skill access. However, once again, I don't see that as something inherently 'bad', for two reasons

1 - Jobs won't exactly prevent you from using skills from dif classes, will just limit which ones you can take. I'm assuming that, for example, a PLD will still be able to use most skills related to their role - IE: Tanking -, regardless of the class that learns the skill. So, they would still be able to use stuff such as MRD provokes, while losing access to things that aren't really currently used for tanking, such as elemental nukes.

2 - If a vanilla, multi-leveled GLA indeed works better than a Glaladin, it still seems fair enough considering the time invested on leveling the other classes, which could turn out into something like

- Plain Gla: Regular tank, regular / good soloer, low time investment
- GLaladin: Good tank, bad soloer, mid time investment, may be improved by leveling more classes
- Heavy cross skilled gla: Very good tank, good soloer, heavy time investment

Of course, this is all speculation. Also, I do believe that, regardless of how the job system is done, there will be strategies and situations where using a regular class will be 'better' than using actual jobs.

I see your point and it is valid and someone who does take the time to level should be rewarded in some way but I think this is too much. I mean when I invite a random GLA now is it going to get to the point where I start having to ask them or look them up on Lodestone just to make sure they have access to the skills needed to be an effective tank. In FFXI if I was to invite a PLD I knew what I was more or less getting with their Job/Sub Job in FFXIV you don't have a clue what they have access to.

For me levelling multiple Classes should just mean you should be able to switch to any Class and play it well, not be able to build a super tank just because you have done so.

[Javilen]

I’m fine with allowing someone who has all classes to lv 50 to be that much better then someone who does not, I will never have all classes to 50, or at least I am pretty sure I won’t anyway but if someone put that effort in then they should be reworded.

What I would have a problem with is if the dungeons become geared in such a way that ONLY someone who has that setup can be effective. Dungeons should be difficult but not impossible to play with just once class leveled, if you know how to play your class and have a good group of the same kind of people then you should be able to complete the dungeon.

If you leveled a multiple classes all the way to 50 and have access to some extra abilities then yeah, it should be a bit easier of a time but it shouldn’t be the only way to beat a dungeon.

[AdvancedWind]

I see your point and it is valid and someone who does take the time to level should be rewarded in some way but I think this is too much. I mean when I invite a random GLA now is it going to get to the point where I start having to ask them or look them up on Lodestone just to make sure they have access to the skills needed to be an effective tank. In FFXI if I was to invite a PLD I knew what I was more or less getting with their Job/Sub Job in FFXIV you don't have a clue what they have access to.

For me levelling multiple Classes should just mean you should be able to switch to any Class and play it well, not be able to build a super tank just because you have done so.

Well, leveling multiple classes and augmenting each other is the point of the armoury system since launch. Even the fatigue system (may it rest in peace...) was set up in a way to (in theory) encourage leveling multiple classes, and as you level those classes, each individual class can become stronger even when not exactly being leveled up.

It's a system that reminds me of some SRPGs (like Final Fantasy Tactics). in FFT, you could have a unit with just "Knight" leveled, and while it could do a reasonably good job (and I do think a plain Gladiator does a somewhat good job currently), it became exponentially better as you added stuff from other classes, say a Ninja's Dual Wielding, a Bard (os was it Dancer?)'s Move + 3, a mastered white mage sub command if you want a bit more of healing....you get the idea. It think it works pretty similarly here.

[Delsus]

Well aside from that, it seems everybody just wants ARC, GLA, and CON. I feel sorry for the higher ranked THM, LNC, PUG, and MRD... well from what I've heard atleast.

From what I have seen this is exactly right, I am getting really tempted to quit the game until 1.19 if this ARC, GLA, CON only idea stays for long.

Is the raid casual content? No. I don't think that anyone who just leveled one class should be able to complete it (as GLA). I mean a lot of important skills are easy to get (~r20).



without a linkshell its impossible to find a party... T_T

Lol some times its impossible to find a party with a linkshell if your not ARC, GLA, CON for darkhold that is anyway

[Cursive]

Well aside from that, it seems everybody just wants ARC, GLA, and CON. I feel sorry for the higher ranked THM, LNC, PUG, and MRD... well from what I've heard atleast.

that is because bg posted a video of them clearing darkhold with that setup...it can definitely be done with different classes...but people would rather just try and emulate what some other ls has already done, which is fine...watching a video is completely different than trying to actually do it. they make it look easy because they are good players.

[Cairdeas]

Anyways... I've got mixed feelings about this as well. I don't want to be entirely forced to level all jobs. That's like lvling DRG even you don't want to =X

Not really, Its more like being a Warrior in FFXI and taking the time to cap all the weapons it can equip which is

Clubs
Knives
Swords
axes
Staffs
Great Swords
Great Axe
Marksman
Archery
Throwing
etc.

And yes, I did that. My Warrior has all her weapons capped at 75 (I haven't touched abyssea)

[Malakhim]

Should people be rewarded proportionately for the time they've invested?

Yes.

The systems are different, but the premise is the same in a game like Street Fighter IV vs FFXIV. The time you put into SFIV is the practice and skill you acquire over time. Do you think it makes sense that a guy who just picked up the game should be able to stomp on a guy who's put a lot of practice in his execution, mind games, and learning character match ups? In the words of Johnny Cochrain, "No, it doesn't make any sense!"

In an RPG like Final Fantasy however, that skill is replaced with abilities and traits you get for reaching certain levels, and the Armory system let's you take all your skills from one class, dump 'em into another, and create that godly class. That was kinda the point from day one. Should they consider balancing it so that people that for some strange reason don't want to take advantage of the system have a bit of an easier time? Maybe. Should they gimp players who put in the time and effort to build the class they want fair and square? A resounding no.

[Bethor]

Not really, Its more like being a Warrior in FFXI and taking the time to cap all the weapons it can equip which is

Clubs
Knives
Swords
axes
Staffs
Great Swords
Great Axe
Marksman
Archery
Throwing
etc.

And yes, I did that. My Warrior has all her weapons capped at 75 (I haven't touched abyssea)

And PARRY!!111oneone11!!eleven!!11

[Jobeto-Rin]

I see your point and it is valid and someone who does take the time to level should be rewarded in some way but I think this is too much. I mean when I invite a random GLA now is it going to get to the point where I start having to ask them or look them up on Lodestone just to make sure they have access to the skills needed to be an effective tank. In FFXI if I was to invite a PLD I knew what I was more or less getting with their Job/Sub Job in FFXIV you don't have a clue what they have access to.

For me levelling multiple Classes should just mean you should be able to switch to any Class and play it well, not be able to build a super tank just because you have done so.

Why not?

I find taking whats from the classes and utilizing them to your needs, being more resourceful.

I don't see why their skills should be degraded. If a player puts together a great build, then well more props to em.

[Naqaj]

It's a system that reminds me of some SRPGs (like Final Fantasy Tactics). in FFT, you could have a unit with just "Knight" leveled, and while it could do a reasonably good job (and I do think a plain Gladiator does a somewhat good job currently), it became exponentially better as you added stuff from other classes, say a Ninja's Dual Wielding, a Bard (os was it Dancer?)'s Move + 3, a mastered white mage sub command if you want a bit more of healing....you get the idea. It think it works pretty similarly here.

Such a system of power inflation works well in a single player game, where you want to reach a point where your player feels really powerfull. In an MMO such a system leads to pretty massive balance problems.

Well, leveling multiple classes and augmenting each other is the point of the armoury system since launch. Even the fatigue system (may it rest in peace...) was set up in a way to (in theory) encourage leveling multiple classes, and as you level those classes, each individual class can become stronger even when not exactly being leveled up.

I'm not convinced the mix'n'match abillity puzzle was the real intention behind the Armoury system, at least not initially. If you remember the early "gameplay stories" on the XIV homepage, they were indeed showing people switching from one class to another, not building a best-of-all monster character.
They did mention cross-class abilities, but initially, the scope of that was much smaller, and they were supposed to have more severe penalties.
The idea was to allow players to customize their playstyle, not to create Superman characters.