Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Daweism]

I would like to see them take piercing talon off GCD on maybe a 30 second CD.

Also, why do we have Doom Spike AND Ring of Thorns? I would like to see them remove RoT and keep Doom Spike, maybe buff it just a bit, lower the TP cost perhaps.

Power Surge is also useless, just another move that clutters the class, buff the Jumps and remove PS.

Dragoons have way too many buttons to be pushed, streamline it a bit.

[Itseotle]

I would like to see them take piercing talon off GCD on maybe a 30 second CD.

Also, why do we have Doom Spike AND Ring of Thorns? I would like to see them remove RoT and keep Doom Spike, maybe buff it just a bit, lower the TP cost perhaps.

Power Surge is also useless, just another move that clutters the class, buff the Jumps and remove PS.

Dragoons have way too many buttons to be pushed, streamline it a bit.

Kinda agree here a bit about the power surge. But would like to chime in my own opinions here as well

Feint: even more useless than some posts above me mention as Shadow Flare does what feint does, and does it better. The skill really needs to be re-worked. This isn't an idea thread, so I'll leave it at that.

Power Surge: Because of the potency of jumps, this needs to be looked at. Currently it serves no purpose other than to stack with Jump. If perhaps it affected Dragonfire Dive then maybe it'll be worth keeping around. We will have to see what new skills Heavensward brings for me to agree to totally remove this skill.

Piercing Talon: The skill at the present is ok at best. Would like to see its tp cost slightly reduced, the potency reduced, and a 9s dot attached. This would make it more viable as a once-every-so-often ranged filler.

Other than that (and the proposed mDEF changes ofc), I think the DRG skills are OK. The 2 AOE skills each have there place and uses, so there fine. skillspeed needs to be looked at, but thats coming 3.0 anyways.

[Daweism]

Other than that (and the proposed mDEF changes ofc), I think the DRG skills are OK. The 2 AOE skills each have there place and uses, so there fine. skillspeed needs to be looked at, but thats coming 3.0 anyways.

There's nothing I can't hit with doom spike that I can hit with ring of thorns, I would like to see ring of thorns removed and doomspike combo-d into a 20 second buff from Heavy thrust and a TP reduction.

[Vodomir]

There's nothing I can't hit with doom spike that I can hit with ring of thorns, I would like to see ring of thorns removed and doomspike combo-d into a 20 second buff from Heavy thrust and a TP reduction.

You can't hit mobs in your back (or on your side) with doomspike, while RoT can.

[Daweism]

You can't hit mobs in your back (or on your side) with doomspike, while RoT can.

What dungeon or raid does a mob learn to counter-strafe you to remain behind you?

[ColdestHeaven]

What dungeon or raid does a mob learn to counter-strafe you to remain behind you?

If mobs ain't aligned, you can't align them with your mind powers. Yes, Doomspike's wide enough to allow for a bit of a mess in mob positioning. But it ain't ALWAYS just a 'bit' of a mess. Tanks can, but not always will, align the mobs for us - so the solution is RoT. Which, besides, is more sustainable TP-wise - whereas Doomspike is the closest thing to a Flare we have, allowing us to deal slightly higher damage for shorter. That is the theory. Anyone can prove otherwise with numbers?

[Dervy]

If mobs ain't aligned, you can't align them with your mind powers. Yes, Doomspike's wide enough to allow for a bit of a mess in mob positioning. But it ain't ALWAYS just a 'bit' of a mess. Tanks can, but not always will, align the mobs for us - so the solution is RoT. Which, besides, is more sustainable TP-wise - whereas Doomspike is the closest thing to a Flare we have, allowing us to deal slightly higher damage for shorter. That is the theory. Anyone can prove otherwise with numbers?

Actually, you're kind of wrong. Once there's 4?+ mobs in the pack, Doomspikes Potency per TP outshines that of Ring of Thorns. The math should be on the front page. If not... It'll be between page 10-90. That's when we had the discussion about it.

Also, I think the issue with the post in the front page is that Ayvar calculated the Single Target HT into the potency calculation.

[Vodomir]

What dungeon or raid does a mob learn to counter-strafe you to remain behind you?

None, but which dungeons do you run, where you actually tank all of the mobs yourself to have full controll over their positions? Yes, tanks can align all of the mobs to account for Doomspike, but reality says most tanks just don't care.

[ColdestHeaven]

If we assume that by the end of our TP bar the mobs are dead, then that calculation is correct - but what I meant was, taking into account a really slow AoE session or a situation where we need our TP as soon as possible right after the AoE session, that the RoT rotation (...) allows you to keep your TP a little longer - for example when you need to wait for Invigorate to be up.

Considering the initial HT out of the calculation since it's the same on both:

Doomspike
160+160+160+160+160+160+160 = 1120 TP
Heavy Thrust+RoT
120+70+120+70+120+70+120 = 690 TP
Unless you are using RoT without HT.
120+120+120+120+120+120+120 = 840 TP

In both cases we use less TP while dealing less damage. Slower AoE is better than no TP for either single target o AoE, right? I mean, there is no such thing in Coil (no relevant or sustained AoE up to T11, which is where I am currently) or other high level instances, but I know that in dungeons I'm rarely able to use AoE for more than two big pulls close two each other. And on the second pull I probably won't have Invigorate up anyway. I didn't think about the number of enemies because I was thinking about saving TP while still doing something or avoiding single target.

[Xanthe]

Feint: even more useless than some posts above me mention as Shadow Flare does what feint does, and does it better. The skill really needs to be re-worked. This isn't an idea thread, so I'll leave it at that.

Shadow Flare is only a 5% slow, while Feint is 20%. Shadow Flare's advantage is that it is a persistent AoE that isn't affected by reduced debuff duration. In situations where slow can actually be applied, Feint is much better for 1-2 adds.