Dragoon, under the shadow of Ninja

[Craiger]

I don't see why DRG is more behind NIN than MNK is to be honest...

DRG deals about ~10% lower dps than MNK, like they have done since 2.1... And DRG balances it up with 10% more damage for the BRD in your group, and higher burst damage. That's perfect balance right there... The problem is Ninja compared to the 2, not just Dragoon.

MNK gives your group slightly higher sustained dps than DRG, and they have better Mantra and Dragon Kick debuff shouldn't be underestimated.

DRG gives your party almost as much sustained dps (with BRD) and makes up for the lower utility with higher burst damage. Should have higher M.Defense though...

NIN gives your party higher sustained dps than both DRG and MNK, because of one ability (Trick Attack), they have very good burst damage and Goad is a very good Utility.

I'm not gonna mention positional differences, because that's irrelevant... DPS isn't determined based on difficulty. DPS should be compared assuming they are played by good players that get everything out of their jobs... If one job does more/less dps because it's harder/easier to play, then all/none of the top players would play that job, cause they know they can get everything out of them. I can play DRG in my sleep and still get good numbers... and I'm no elite player by any means.

They could make Trick Attack give you a 10% damage buff, and a debuff to the enemy that makes everyone in the party do just 2% more damage or something... and it would pretty much balance things out, and it wouldn't decrease NIN's own dps, which I think nobody who plays them wants... Just an example btw.

[Kuwagami]

All these theorycrafting and u peeps forgot how lazy SE buff jobs (BLM buff wink2) , send word to SE HQ that all DRG buff can be very simple enough implemented by boosting heavy thrust dmg buff into 50%!

Is it already the time we butcher balance ?

[Craiger]

All these theorycrafting and u peeps forgot how lazy SE buff jobs (BLM buff wink2) , send word to SE HQ that all DRG buff can be very simple enough implemented by boosting heavy thrust dmg buff into 50%!

Honestly, why should they suddenly change DRG? except for potency changes I mean... Magic defense is the only thing I can see them change other than that (easy fix), and I don't think it's right for them to only fix DRG...

There needs to be small changes to balancing right now, but if they change other things about DRG too, to make them more "enjoyable", they would have to do that to every other job too IMO... and trust me, people have these opinions about every job there is. BLM obviously wanted some different changes, SMN player have wanted some change for a long time, not to mention BRD's... There is a ton of things they can do better with the jobs, and I suggest they wait with it and release those changes at the same time sometime in the future.

[Leonus]

Drg needs to be buffed ASAP, the other classes still have very good uses to raid parties overall in comparison to drg. I don't really believe that they need a buff as quickly as drg does right now.

Not saying other classes don't need/could use changes, but drg needs them a bit more and shouldn't have to wait any longer than they have to.

[rangrang]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...46#post2574746

dragoon buff comingsoon

[Craiger]

Drg needs to be buffed ASAP, the other classes still have very good uses to raid parties overall in comparison to drg. I don't really believe that they need a buff as quickly as drg does right now.

Not saying other classes don't need/could use changes, but drg needs them a bit more and shouldn't have to wait any longer than they have to.

It's still the same difference between MNK and DRG as it has always been... MNK's do more sustained dps, while DRG makes up most of that from the increased damage for your BRD, and having more burst damage. NIN have changed things somewhat, because they bring better or the same things on everything, but seriously, people need to calm down... Just cause NIN looks to be a little OP right now, doesn't mean DRG sucks all of a sudden. You can still do all content without any problems...

Should I say it again? There is very little difference to the sustained dps a DRG brings to a group, compared to what a MNK gives your group... You can't dismiss the 10% increase in dps on the BRD, that's a lot of added dps DRG's give you. NIN of course have Trick Attack, which does almost exactly the same bonus dps, and has higher dps itself... But if you just increase DRG's dps, then suddenly MNK is going to give the least amount of dps for your group.

[ChaozK]

I'm not gonna mention positional differences, because that's irrelevant... DPS isn't determined based on difficulty. DPS should be compared assuming they are played by good players that get everything out of their jobs... If one job does more/less dps because it's harder/easier to play, then all/none of the top players would play that job, cause they know they can get everything out of them.

I agree that balancing around difficulty is a bad thing but positional requierements are more along the lines of cast bars for casters. Meaning they dont make the job more complicated to play but are hindersome when it comes to dealing with mechanics. Its like with BLM vs SMN basically. BLM has a very simple rotation but its cast bars are detrimental when it comes to movement, so it deserves higher base dmg in comparison to BRD or SMN.

Thats actually my main gripe when it comes to MNK/DRG vs NIN. Yes i do think that NIN is more complicated than both MNK and DRG but once you get to the point where you have your rotation down, a NIN will be able to deal much better with movement and mechanics because he has no such class mechanics like positionals or cast bars. So if the base dmg is similar (MNK) or even higher (DRG), NIN will be much better in most fights in practice. Its kinda like the bard of melees.

[Tilgung]

Should I say it again? There is very little difference to the sustained dps a DRG brings to a group, compared to what a MNK gives your group... You can't dismiss the 10% increase in dps on the BRD

Except this is wrong. It's only a roughly 7% increase to Bard damage, as it has no effect on DoTs. 7% on the lowest output DPS of your group.

MNK DPS isn't only slightly higher, it's somewhere in the ballpark of 50 DPS higher (520 compared to 480) iirc.

[Leonus]

The drg damage boost is more like 6-7% damage according to posters on the forum. It also doesn't affect the dots.

Also, at the moment mnk still adds more utility to a group. Drg is lacking in that area. Drg getting a damage boost to put it more on line with nin/mnk as well as utility would help greatly in providing desirability for hardcore raid groups to bring them along.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Ignoring the DPS entirely (which is not a small issue) DRG's other problem is that they are literally impossible to bring into i110 Final Coil progression and survive, due to their lower magic damage. Especially if you're giving up a MNK's DK to bring them.

If you were to rate DEF/MDEF on equipment from a scale of 1 to 4:
Tanks are 4/4
Mages are 1/3
DRG is 3/1
Everyone else is 2/2

DRG equipment needs to be buffed to 3/2 to be able to survive extreme amounts of AoE, or evened out to 2/2.