Dragoon, under the shadow of Ninja

[Cynric]

Unless, of course, you properly attribute that bonus damage to the Ninja, where it belongs. >_>

Except the bonus applies to the whole raid. Yes if you count the extra raid damage to the Ninja it outdpses Monk. But numbers wise to the individual classes Monk out dpses Ninja in single target.

If you wanna talk ideal situation , Foes+ Storm + Raid Damage of course Ninja will outdps Monk. But like I said in my earlier post, to me the ideal party is War/Pld/Whm/Sch/Brd/Smn/Nin/Drg. Pretty sure keeping everything unique without stacking classes this is the highest DPS/Utility raid comp atm.

I'm not saying Ninja doesn't contribute more total DPS in the long run than Monk. I'm saying a Monk is going to have more individual DPS than a Ninja when they're played equally and geared equally.

[Leonus]

Except the bonus applies to the whole raid. Yes if you count the extra raid damage to the Ninja it outdpses Monk. But numbers wise to the individual classes Monk out dpses Ninja in single target.

If you wanna talk ideal situation , Foes+ Storm + Raid Damage of course Ninja will outdps Monk. But like I said in my earlier post, to me the ideal party is War/Pld/Whm/Sch/Brd/Smn/Nin/Drg. Pretty sure keeping everything unique without stacking classes this is the highest DPS/Utility raid comp atm.

I'm not saying Ninja doesn't contribute more total DPS in the long run than Monk. I'm saying a Monk is going to have more individual DPS than a Ninja when they're played equally and geared equally.

Nah bro, if war is putting up storms/brd putting up foes, that damage is theirs, not the nin.

Nin only gets the damage for 10 seconds, or only if he/she puts up their own slashing debuff.

People want to play that game, then play it.

[Cynric]

Nah bro, if war is putting up storms/brd putting up foes, that damage is theirs, not the nin.

Nin only gets the damage for 10 seconds, or only if he/she puts up their own slashing debuff.

People want to play that game, then play it.

True facts lol.

[Itseotle]

I guess for some reason it's just easier to have a Monk somehow. I just don't see it.

Its really only for now because of the DPS difference. People are not over gearing Final Coil yet, so every bit of dps really counts towards getting those kills, or wiping. DPS and mana management, as a DRG that takes more dmg than a MNK uses more mana to heal, because everyone knows every DRG uses Life Surge to heal themselves right? (lol) Other than life surge, MNK and DRG have the same healing abilities, while MNK takes less dmg and heals for more.

Your ideal party setup does look really nice once the minor dps difference can be over come, and personally my group managed to just barely squeek by T10 so far with neither MNK nor NIN, but just barely. And before anyone attacks me, I main DRG and love the class and will not surrender to the NIN overlords so easily.

[Empressia]

All these theorycrafting and u peeps forgot how lazy SE buff jobs (BLM buff wink2) , send word to SE HQ that all DRG buff can be very simple enough implemented by boosting heavy thrust dmg buff into 50%!

[Kuwagami]

All these theorycrafting and u peeps forgot how lazy SE buff jobs (BLM buff wink2) , send word to SE HQ that all DRG buff can be very simple enough implemented by boosting heavy thrust dmg buff into 50%!

Is it already the time we butcher balance ?

[Craiger]

All these theorycrafting and u peeps forgot how lazy SE buff jobs (BLM buff wink2) , send word to SE HQ that all DRG buff can be very simple enough implemented by boosting heavy thrust dmg buff into 50%!

Honestly, why should they suddenly change DRG? except for potency changes I mean... Magic defense is the only thing I can see them change other than that (easy fix), and I don't think it's right for them to only fix DRG...

There needs to be small changes to balancing right now, but if they change other things about DRG too, to make them more "enjoyable", they would have to do that to every other job too IMO... and trust me, people have these opinions about every job there is. BLM obviously wanted some different changes, SMN player have wanted some change for a long time, not to mention BRD's... There is a ton of things they can do better with the jobs, and I suggest they wait with it and release those changes at the same time sometime in the future.

[Craiger]

I don't see why DRG is more behind NIN than MNK is to be honest...

DRG deals about ~10% lower dps than MNK, like they have done since 2.1... And DRG balances it up with 10% more damage for the BRD in your group, and higher burst damage. That's perfect balance right there... The problem is Ninja compared to the 2, not just Dragoon.

MNK gives your group slightly higher sustained dps than DRG, and they have better Mantra and Dragon Kick debuff shouldn't be underestimated.

DRG gives your party almost as much sustained dps (with BRD) and makes up for the lower utility with higher burst damage. Should have higher M.Defense though...

NIN gives your party higher sustained dps than both DRG and MNK, because of one ability (Trick Attack), they have very good burst damage and Goad is a very good Utility.

I'm not gonna mention positional differences, because that's irrelevant... DPS isn't determined based on difficulty. DPS should be compared assuming they are played by good players that get everything out of their jobs... If one job does more/less dps because it's harder/easier to play, then all/none of the top players would play that job, cause they know they can get everything out of them. I can play DRG in my sleep and still get good numbers... and I'm no elite player by any means.

They could make Trick Attack give you a 10% damage buff, and a debuff to the enemy that makes everyone in the party do just 2% more damage or something... and it would pretty much balance things out, and it wouldn't decrease NIN's own dps, which I think nobody who plays them wants... Just an example btw.

[ChaozK]

I'm not gonna mention positional differences, because that's irrelevant... DPS isn't determined based on difficulty. DPS should be compared assuming they are played by good players that get everything out of their jobs... If one job does more/less dps because it's harder/easier to play, then all/none of the top players would play that job, cause they know they can get everything out of them.

I agree that balancing around difficulty is a bad thing but positional requierements are more along the lines of cast bars for casters. Meaning they dont make the job more complicated to play but are hindersome when it comes to dealing with mechanics. Its like with BLM vs SMN basically. BLM has a very simple rotation but its cast bars are detrimental when it comes to movement, so it deserves higher base dmg in comparison to BRD or SMN.

Thats actually my main gripe when it comes to MNK/DRG vs NIN. Yes i do think that NIN is more complicated than both MNK and DRG but once you get to the point where you have your rotation down, a NIN will be able to deal much better with movement and mechanics because he has no such class mechanics like positionals or cast bars. So if the base dmg is similar (MNK) or even higher (DRG), NIN will be much better in most fights in practice. Its kinda like the bard of melees.

[Leonus]

Drg needs to be buffed ASAP, the other classes still have very good uses to raid parties overall in comparison to drg. I don't really believe that they need a buff as quickly as drg does right now.

Not saying other classes don't need/could use changes, but drg needs them a bit more and shouldn't have to wait any longer than they have to.