When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

[Kazumac]

I don't care about the current p.c. / coddling that goes on in today's generation. I am about whats best for the group and my self and if it hurts someone coddled persons feeling I really don't care.

I also feel the name calling and lack of real advice is quite prevalent. I think the best advice especially when you are in the thick of it is direct and pointed advice or identification of the issue. (Quite possibly we are advocating the same approach) I see far too many "player xyz your dps is horrible" vs "player xyz your damage needs to be higher during that phase. Save your raging strikes/fester/other cool downs etc."

Both call out the issue in question. One facilitates improvement. The other usually evokes a defensive response. My approach is not coddling and sure some people will take offense but at least I've left them with something they can hopefully use to improve.

[Schizm]

Situations like this happen often lately and it's not only T5, I have witness T1 where people have taken an incredible amount of verbal abuse. Granted, those jobs were usually Tanks and Healers, but I really don't want someone to feel like they failed, but maybe the game didn't instruct a player properly to play their jobs. I know there's endless forums and videos that people can use as resources, but really, we all should be more active in helping people rather than calling them names.

[Schizm]

I meant I wasn't the one taking the lashing, I was the one that said we need to abandon the coil due to it's going to fail and it did, miserably. Over and over and a few "WTF" came out against someone else in the party.

I was trying to get seals that it blinded me to the fact that I was so much of an ass toward someone undergeared causing the coil to wipe.

What caused me to stop doing coils and playing the game as much is simply, I was wrong and I wronged someone else. When I started making comments, other people in the party started on the person and before I can say it's not that serious, all hell broke loose and people were leaving. Deep down, I know the person had to feel bad.

There's nothing I can do to take back what happened, the only thing I can do now is move on and either try to help someone new to content or not do it at all.

[Ophie-Mio]

Once again, this is the extreme point of view. So you were mean to someone? Who cares? They ranted about you to their friends or FC mates and called you a douchebag and then called it a night. This is a game and people treat others treating them like dirt in this game like someone doing the same on 4chan and reddit. It's anonymous so why let someone else bother you for too long? They get over it.

[Schizm]

Sadly, it doesn't end there. I had players I played with rage quit the game and had to resign up due to situatioins like this. Our LS has someone that not only blew up in the LS chat but it carried over into forums.

I remember early after beta people were doing speed runs, if they saw someone undergeared they would leave immediately. There's been alot of runs in dungeons where I joined one and it's two people standing around saying everyone left. I try to make the best of things but even those tend to fail.

Are we suppose to keep trying an event where before the run started, you know it was going to be bad. Where other players whether unexperienced or undergear is going to make everyone else work harder when just joining another party could make it fun and exciting. If I had to weigh out both options, the unexperienced players are probably going to miss out on some content.

The "cyber bullying" aspect does play a factor that people would take things personal, more than others.

[Vespar]

Once again, this is the extreme point of view. So you were mean to someone? Who cares? They ranted about you to their friends or FC mates and called you a douchebag and then called it a night. This is a game and people treat others treating them like dirt in this game like someone doing the same on 4chan and reddit. It's anonymous so why let someone else bother you for too long? They get over it.

I actually wouldn't call the cyber-bullying in this or any other game an extreme point of view. Its actually increasingly commonplace. The amount of times it happens is excessive to say the least and therefore it is not just on one side of some proverbial positive/negative scale. I actually think its a good thing that Schizm understands that his comments may have wronged someone and acknowledges that. More people need to start owning up to this like he has. Anonymity does not make your actions right or just. What I say here will probably never happen, but is it really so hard to treat someone on the internet with the same respect as you would show them if you were face to face?

Yes, it is a good idea after the negativity has hit you to try and let it go and move on, but its increasingly difficult to remain positive and move past the bad, when the same exact scenario looms over you again and again when you next try the dungeon/raid you were attempting.

That being said, there are good people out there though, this I know. I have met many. It just feels like the callous and quick-to-abuse players far outweigh them.

[Kallera]

Once again, this is the extreme point of view. So you were mean to someone? Who cares? They ranted about you to their friends or FC mates and called you a douchebag and then called it a night. This is a game and people treat others treating them like dirt in this game like someone doing the same on 4chan and reddit. It's anonymous so why let someone else bother you for too long? They get over it.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people justify jerk behavior like this. It invites retaliation. Even if its a random person its wrong, it even worse when it is a friend.

And one shouldn't let the game dictate who they are friends with by whether they can dodge a landslide.

[Schizm]

I can say looking at where I am in the game versus other people, I am not on top but pretty far where I really feel that everything is now just getting as much accomplished as fast as I can.

Really though, if it's just popping duty finder and then bailing out of the party because of seeing a particular person putting the run in jeopardy, what am I, as a player, saying about the game?

If SE can make a fun way for people new to jobs to be put into class specific "stress tests" to teach players but also show how they can improve, they maybe doing themselves a service by giving players a party element and atleast be given a chance to learn without being in fear of others. If I could run a T5 coil with NPC run just to practice and learn by experience, I would truely be able to tell people I am ready or if I am not, rather than just skipping doing coils all together.

Right now I haven't been playing much because deep down, I know that frustration will come out again.

[Eirwen]

Maybe a different kind of stress test can help. Many things have a required ilevel in order to access them, which is pretty easy to reach nowadays, and is a different part I don't like but is off topic. With higher ilevel gear, raids, dungeons and trials go faster than when they were newly added. We did Garuda HM around ilvl 60 and grew with the challenge. Now she's dead before the sisters pop and most of the strategy is gone. If you are new to this fight, DF'd into such a strong party and want to repeat this fight with other new people later on, you lack the battle experience a youtube video just can't give.

To counterbalance this, and hopefully force people to interact with each other better, it would be great to see an iLevel cap on things like the HM Trials. These trials teach us valuable things for end game raids like response time, team work and more, thereby preparing new players for tougher fights and still keep things challenging for everybody else.

[Animarelic]

What I do when I get new players in a Dungeon, Raid or Trial I ask this: " Would you like to try the fights or have me explain it to you?" Depending on the answer I prepare myself mentally for wipes even though I want to clear the place fast or I prepare myself mentally to lead players who may or may not be receptive to my advice.

Either way I stopped entering queues with the "Get ER' DONE" Mindset and focus more on enjoying the run and experience with new players. Depending on my personal mood without subjecting new players to my wrath I will either give them the full timer or give them a certain amount of wipes before I excuse myself.