Coil 5 changes needed

[baopee]

I had pug and down from pre-50 contects to T7 also all the em primals besides shiva, Maybe i was lucky, but nerf T5 more is not going to solve the problem, people just need to work on and understand the mechanics. With echo, ilvl 90 group should have no problem to clear it.

I do understand T5 is like a huge road block for a lot of players, but that is also a skills check point for future contents, SE made it hard for a reason.

[Parodine]

The echo buff helps with the snake phase, the dreadknight phase, beating the conflags, etc. It's worth mentioning because you don't need all 8 people alive to take down Twin anymore. If someone can't master Twister mechanics, it's not an instant wipe for your raid during the dreadknight phase. If someone is bad at divebombs, you all can still take down the snakes (that's not even an instakill really, but if they get thrown into the wall I guess).

Now, if multiple people can't deal with the mechanics, yes, it's useless. But most DFs probably only need 6 solid people now for the win. Maybe less once the gear keeps increasing.

I think people are reluctant for nerfs because once you get past this 'wall', Turn 6 is going to be even harder. Will people immediately start demanding for a nerf with that? If you can't win Turn 5 without a nerf, there's not much hope for Turn 6 in its current state.

[Tiggy]

T5 really has no business being remotely difficult anymore. But due to the numerous instakill mechanics, it still is, just like fights like Titan EX. Echo and better gear in this fight (again, much like in Titan EX) does virtually no good for this reason, so I don't know why people keep bringing it up as a factor.

All that would do is remove an easy stepping stone. T5 has two difficult mechanics that you must get through to win. If you can't do that then you are going to have a tougher time moving forward through the later turns. All nerfing turn 5 would do is move the complaints to T6 instead. Sometimes you need these types of fights in order to help teach players and prepare them for later mechanics and that's what T5 does. There are negatives to making it easy just because it's old.

[kyuven]

I do understand T5 is like a huge road block for a lot of players, but that is also a skills check point for future contents, SE made it hard for a reason.

it's pretty simple, really. It's the first fight that actually requires every player to pay attention to something other than their health bar and punishes the RAID for mistakes rather than the individual. Even Titan EX (the other roadblock) only directly punishes the individual for failing mechanics.
It's a large shift from all the content before it, but a really good indicator of what the second tier EX primals (thornmarch, levi, ramuh, and shiva) and t6+ are going to start inflicting upon you.
That combined with the very real existence of people who refuse to stick around as the new players learn it even when they join through PF leads to a lot of disgruntled players.
Thus the negative sentiment is understandable, but it doesn't need to be fixed. Can't fix bad players.

[CGMidlander]

Turn 5 is already incredibly easy. Only an overall terrible team can have problems with it.

You can have one bad tank and it wouldn't matter as long as the other one is decent. The bad one can take a dirtnap.

DPS has a shocking amount of leeway to be less than ideal, with echo and the ubiquity of i110 weapons.

Echo and gear makes healing easy too.

...But asking to fix bad randoms is like asking to cure stupidity on the internet.

[kyuven]

Turn 5 is already incredibly easy.

OK I've heard this a lot from a lot of different players but...
It's not as easy as players who have cleared it let on. It's easy for them NOW because players who have cleared it as well as later content have no issues.
But the gameplay shift means it's not objectively "easy" giving the framework laid before it.
I also wouldn't say its "hard," though. To use TVtropes terms, it's a "wake-up call boss." If you don't know what you're doing you can still screw up because watching videos doesn't prepare your physical body for it. If you're off by about 3 feet during divebombs you can wipe your raid.
Thus, it's not "easy," nor is it "hard," it has a learning curve. The learning curve isn't necessarily STEEP, mind you, at least not compared to t6 where you have to perform an action that you've never had to perform before in any other encounter, but it still exists and some slack should be given to players at that "learning" phase.
Of course if they keep failing to the exact same mechanic 5 times in a row, they're not cut out for it.

[Woggers]

Like most people have already said, coil is endgame content regardless if its a year old. Its still considered endgame. You need skill, patience, practice and a close team of people who also can put in the same time as you. Just keep practicing it. Its not going to happen in 1 or 2 tries. Most people it took weeks/months of practice and wipes to clear. Put in the time to work for it and you'll get the win.

[Reokudo]

Well, you have to consider... Some people aren't meant to get through some content if they can't be bothered to learn anything. It's one of those "Get good or get out" things.

[Tiggy]

OK I've heard this a lot from a lot of different players but...
It's not as easy as players who have cleared it let on. It's easy for them NOW because players who have cleared it as well as later content have no issues.

I literally helped a player last week who I personally watched beat it on his second attempt ever. He'd only done up to Titan Ex without a win yet and had never done anything past T5. It's easy.

[Fynlar]

I literally helped a player last week who I personally watched beat it on his second attempt ever. He'd only done up to Titan Ex without a win yet and had never done anything past T5. It's easy.

dat irrefutable anecdotal evidence

I guess all the trouble I have winning fights like this one and Titan EX is merely a fabrication of my mind