Ninja damage insane over monk

[ShaolinMike]

quoted for best response on-topic

Looks like a ton of stuff to keep track of on paper, but it's not that bad when you're actually doing it. Then again, I'm only lvl 41 at the moment so I'm missing a few things out of my rotation, but it's totally doable.

[MrSigy]

Looks like a ton of stuff to keep track of on paper, but it's not that bad when you're actually doing it. Then again, I'm only lvl 41 at the moment so I'm missing a few things out of my rotation, but it's totally doable.

Of course it is but you still have to do it on a fight, that's when people fuck up.

[ShaolinMike]

Of course it is but you still have to do it on a fight, that's when people fuck up.

Agreed. I have a feeling it's not going to be for the faint of heart, but I welcome the challenge.

[DenariusJay]

I've fought some Ninjas in a 1v1 with my Monk in frontlines - there DPS is no joke, even on GL3 monk I couldn't stand toe to toe with one. I know its pvp its a different ball park then PvE, but when people catch wind with how good they are, its gonna be all bad. Wouldn't be surprised to see the nerf bat coming there way in the next few months

[Snugglebutt]

Not surprised would be a MNK player who made this thread complaining that another class has the nerve to come up to or touch it's high single target dps pedestal especially the use of melodramatic tone of thread title trying to make it sound like such is a lot bigger problem than actually is. NiN DMG is not 'insane' compared to MNK at all.

I have a level 50 female second character which is MNK and from what I have seen so far NiN is around on par with MNK in terms of single target damage over the course of an entire fight at least in dungeons and raids, trials and such rather than normal generic non-instanced mobs given NiN has high burst DMG that does not have so many positional requirements as MNK and as such generic non-instanced mobs would naturally fall quicker to high burst DPS rather than slower built up but high sustained DMG after GL3 etc...

Not forgetting sometimes might be slightly higher DPS and sometimes slightly lower DPS in dungeons but due to fights lasting quite a lot longer positional's and sustained DPS comes much more into play over burst DMG quite often...even then that's still down to the players ability to use the classes whether playing NiN or MNK plus what gear they have and their levels of concentration.

If anything needs some changes I think it would be DRG increased slightly to be on par with MNK and NiN perhaps, alternatively if want them to be more equal you would need to nerf MNK's and NiN to be on par with DRG but if you just want NiN nerfed and not MNK despite MNK having a pretty big advantage over DRG already then I am sorry but sounds to me you just want to continue standing on your pedestal looking down on the other single target melee classes.

You shouldn't be basing your argument of being overpowered (which I disagree with anyways) on generic open world mobs however because there is a big difference between nuking a non-dungeon mob taken out by high burst damage in a short time compared to a long lasting dungeon style boss which requires sustainability and bigger reliance on positional's. MNK's are great single target raid boss killing machines still, NiN's are just as good but DRG is still lagging behind the two a bit in my opinion.

[Danbo05]

You're comparing a ninja to a monk, via open world trash. You're already doing it wrong.

[Aphel]

After playing with Ninja more, I've come to realize that some aspects are a little broken. Here's one of them:

1. Huton gives you 70sec of increased attack speed. At first I thought this was autoattacks but it extends to skillspeed. I'm not geared but before Huton = 2.42sec GCD. After Huton this is reduced to 2.05secs, for a full 70 secs duration.

Monk's GL3: +27% damage, +15% skillspeed, stacks need to build up and maintain.
Ninja Huton: +15% skillspeed, 70 sec duration. No damage bonus but you have poison = +20% permanent damage buff.

This clearly is a little excessive.

As to positional requirements, I think it's justified. I've ran many dungeons now and keeping track of Huiton/Trick/2 dots/1 debuff (because there wasn't any warrior)/Kassatsu/Mug/Jugulate/5 other cross class CDs/Mudra execution, takes A LOT out of your brain. This isn't Fire3->Fire1 till low->Blizz3->Thunder2->repeat. The complexity is mind-blowing and adding more positional requirements will fry your brain.

Before anyone complains about lack of positional requirement, get a Ninja to 50. Run a few dungeons or even go raid, making sure everything is up 100%, no mistakes. Then if you still feel they need more positionals I will worship the very ground you walk on.

[MrCookTM]

After playing with Ninja more, I've come to realize they're a little broken atm.

1. Huton gives you 70sec of increased attack speed. At first I thought this was autoattacks but it extends to skillspeed. I'm not geared but before Huton = 2.42sec GCD. After Huton this is reduced to 2.05secs, for a full 70 secs duration.

*Editing

And why exactly is that broken? Monk GL3 should be broken then even more so. The first parses from skilled players (= players that are already running T11 on Nin) are showing avg dps of ~410 over a 4 min dummy parse. Of course the job is new and players will find ways to improve rotation, but 410 is more than 100 dps less than the sustained of an i110 monk and i doubt that rotation adjustments are going to squeeze out 25%+ and more to get nin up on par with monk in terms of single target sustained dps.

[Massterchef]

i110 with HA ninja wep, with food, no dex pots. Flawless rotation for the most part except for accidentally using a fuma shuriken over raiton once, and this would be a best-of parse I'd say 450~ is the average. I've seen monks output an average of 470 over the same circumstances so no, monks still have top DPS in fights with atleast 90% uptime. And using open world mobs to state otherwise is not what I'd consider credible.

[Ricdeau]

i110 with HA ninja wep, with food, no dex pots. Flawless rotation for the most part except for accidentally using a fuma shuriken over raiton once, and this would be a best-of parse I'd say 450~ is the average. I've seen monks output an average of 470 over the same circumstances so no, monks still have top DPS in fights with atleast 90% uptime. And using open world mobs to state otherwise is not what I'd consider credible.

On a dummy in full i110 a monk should average more in the 480-485 range (pending lucky crits obviously). Also a question about that parse. Was that final time that you showed from running dry on TP, or did you just end the parse?