MAGE STRIKE

[Kiote]

so whats stoping all of you complainers from playing the role you want? party size is 8 plenty of room for a mage DD and a mage healer pick a type don't think u can main heal and main nuke in a single party. since when should a main tank be a main dd? pick a role play it dont try to do everything

Good point, maybe when your seeking a party where it gives you a massive space to put in a description of what you want to do you should specifically put, I'm not a healer!

or better yet,

Make your own stupid party..

[Chumeia]

Mage strike isn't going to happen.

But it's true that Damage dealers want to be the only combatants in the game and will always ask that mages be made weaker and weaker. They call this balancing but its just progressive gimping to third rank status.

They say they want us all to be able to play in our own styles, but that's not really true or we wouldn't be getting forced into rolls that are buffers or healers. True solo can do anything.

As it was before I was able to do anything. The Melee was only limited by it's level and the amount of mana that job could support. Then tack on the spells I need most to survive, like Cure, and away we go! That's how we solo. But now, Everything is harder.

Really reading the arguments between Damage Dealers and Mages is like any argument between Science and Religion, or Democrats and Republicans. One side is always more vocal and always insists that it's way is the only way, and thus the other should give up and play by their rules.

[Rowyne]

I'm honestly thrilled with the 1.18 mage changes.

Since day one, the two magic classes have been a work in progress.

Before the game was even released, the official website described Conjurer as being able to 'shift between both offensive and defensive magic as needed.' Thaumaturges were described more as a dark caster, 'unparalleled in their powers of destruction, eclipsing even the Disciples of War.' To those who wanted to play a main healer, the choice seemed clear, you should go with Conjurer.

However, as you play both classes up through mid-game, they have an oddly similar skillset. The only major difference being CON buffs (Protect, Shell, Stoneskin, Shock Spikes, etc) and THM Siphon MP. Both classes could single target AND party heal equally well, just one did it through direct healing spells and the other through HoTs. In fact, some people argued that THM was a better healer.

That alone has always felt odd to me. Since jobs were announced, people have been speculating over which class would unlock White Mage. The fact that answer was never clear was an indication that there was way too much class homogenization between CON and THM.

Yes, CON has gotten a nudge toward healing and THM has gotten a nudge toward damage. But, honestly, that's the way the classes were originally described. THM can still be a great secondary healer and CON still has powerful elemental nukes. The choices are still there. But the fact that THM could do both equally well and was jokingly referred to as a mage tank was a balance issue that needed to be addressed.

The other thing I'm glad to see is how MP costs were adjusted. Remember when the game was first released and MP didn't regen automatically in passive mode? We had to touch an aetheryte or use an ability like Tranquility. We used to make careful choices to covet our precious MP. When they implemented passive mode MP regen, they made no other adjustments, and the magic classes became a ridiculously overpowered never-ending fount of AoE heals and nuke spam. Most of our skillset became largely untapped because we didn't need it anymore and we could play with one eye open while watching TV.

It may feel like SE swung the nerf bat since the changes were pretty drastic, but let's face it, it needed to happen. We all wanted combat to be more challenging and fulfilling. Now we've been put in a position where we need to make more meaningful choices. We need to allot points more carefully and make use of abilities like Spiritbind, Tranquility and Siphon MP.

I'm hopeful that SE will closely monitor the changes, and make adjustments if necessary. But, so far, I really like the mage rework.

[Physic]

I'm honestly thrilled with the 1.18 mage changes.

Since day one, the two magic classes have been a work in progress.

Before the game was even released, the official website described Conjurer as being able to 'shift between both offensive and defensive magic as needed.' Thaumaturges were described more as a dark caster, 'unparalleled in their powers of destruction, eclipsing even the Disciples of War.' To those who wanted to play a main healer, the choice seemed clear, you should go with Conjurer.

However, as you play both classes up through mid-game, they have an oddly similar skillset. The only major difference being CON buffs (Protect, Shell, Stoneskin, Shock Spikes, etc) and THM Siphon MP. Both classes could single target AND party heal equally well, just one did it through direct healing spells and the other through HoTs. In fact, some people argued that THM was a better healer.

That alone has always felt odd to me. Since jobs were announced, people have been speculating over which class would unlock White Mage. The fact that answer was never clear was an indication that there was way too much class homogenization between CON and THM.

Yes, CON has gotten a nudge toward healing and THM has gotten a nudge toward damage. But, honestly, that's the way the classes were originally described. THM can still be a great secondary healer and CON still has powerful elemental nukes. The choices are still there. But the fact that THM could do both equally well and was jokingly referred to as a mage tank was a balance issue that needed to be addressed.

The other thing I'm glad to see is how MP costs were adjusted. Remember when the game was first released and MP didn't regen automatically in passive mode? We had to touch an aetheryte or use an ability like Tranquility. We used to make careful choices to covet our precious MP. When they implemented passive mode MP regen, they made no other adjustments, and the magic classes became a ridiculously overpowered never-ending fount of AoE heals and nuke spam. Most of our skillset became largely untapped because we didn't need it anymore and we could play with one eye open while watching TV.

It may feel like SE swung the nerf bat since the changes were pretty drastic, but let's face it, it needed to happen. We all wanted combat to be more challenging and fulfilling. Now we've been put in a position where we need to make more meaningful choices. We need to allot points more carefully and make use of abilities like Spiritbind, Tranquility and Siphon MP.

I'm hopeful that SE will closely monitor the changes, and make adjustments if necessary.

except your options are a lie in an MMO, sure you can be a DD con if the community allows it, but now that difficult content requires a dedicated healer, and con is the only one who can play that role, it means no matter what other skills you have, you will 99% of the time be called on to heal, if they wanted a DD theyd get an archer.

the truth is con never should have been whm, they should have had a seperate class for whm, and con could move into that role for emergencies with the right builds, or even thaum, but what they decided is to have only one class that can heal well, and they forced it down cons throat even though it was always supposed to be more of a scholar than a whm, simply because they didnt feel like making a new class that made sense.

and by the way, they have only made mp management and by extension dmg reduction more challenging, actually dealing dmg, tactics, etc is exactly the same difficulty, if not even more bland witrh the changes to basic abilities

[Rowyne]

but what they decided is to have only one class that can heal well, and they forced it down cons throat even though it was always supposed to be more of a scholar than a whm, simply because they didnt feel like making a new class that made sense.

The same could be said for the way it was before. Before, CONs were expected to be a hybrid class. I was expected to nuke, but I didn't want to. I wanted to be a healer.

So, now, the tables are turned.

Maybe I'm biased. I play healers in all my MMOs. In FFXI I was a WHM. In WoW, I was a Holy Priest. In Aion, I was a Cleric. Being a party/raid healer is all I want to be.

Before, I never felt satisfied in my role. Now, I couldn't be happier with the direction that CON is going.

[Dubont]

The same could be said for the way it was before. Before, CONs were expected to be a hybrid class. I was expected to nuke, but I didn't want to. I wanted to be a healer.

So, now, the tables are turned.

Maybe I'm biased. I play healers in all my MMOs. In FFXI I was a WHM. In WoW, I was a Holy Priest. In Aion, I was a Cleric. Being a party/raid healer is all I want to be.

Before, I never felt satisfied in my role. Now, I couldn't be happier with the direction that CON is going.

I played CON has a DD...so I'm not happy with the way things are now...but then again, CON's nuke dmg has always been lower than THMs..

[Neptune]

This is a long post but I'm getting to everybody here.

Oscillate, at me to FList! I'll be on later this week.

Black people will always be black, but they choose to live in societies run by white people?
That's what it sounds like you're saying to me. It's still fucking arrogant and offensive.

Racism is racism, but prejudice and bias are universal in these analogies.

Shai, your analogy using racism I must say is very applicable here.

"You don't feel you're treated fair as a black man in USA? Move to Africa."

CON was born with Fire and Flare and Burn and Rasp.
It came to 1.18 and was told "We know you can do lots of things, but too fucking bad."
Similar to black slaves - maybe they were powerful and popular in their native land, too bad.

Another good analogy. If someone tells you to GTFO take a moment to consider where it's coming from.. Melee players just don't develop the same level of skill in an MMO as a healer, black mage, or tank. They don't have an opportunity to learn unless they try.

"CON is meant to be healer from the start so suck it up." (False) and "Mages should always be managing MP and resting between Cures." (False, as proven by pre-1.18 XIV) etc etc much like saying women should always be in the kitchen is ridiculous and false and we all except that to be true (well, except the % of people who believe it).

I thought I would highlight this because it's a good thing to point out.

Yeah he also said...

Classes will remain solo-friendly, and "build your own class" freedom.
Job System will overlay that to give you a more defined role in the party.

Where'd that go exactly? Did he forget to add "except CON which we decided is healer now."

Yeah exactly, "except CON which we decided is healer now."

I am considering re-rolling as a result of all the changes, might help me learn the subtleties again.

Dude don't re-roll. The subtleties? Of What? Of a programmers keystrokes who decides MP cost is quadrupled and aoe toggle is off?

How many NM battles have you run with the new system? How many instances?


I think it would be much more effective to try the new systems out and then come up with a real analysis about its strengths and weakness.

If anything it's just going to take longer if it's possible at all, due to sleeping the NM. It was already long and hard before, now it's just going to be longer and harder, or impossibler. Stupid.

Current changes are necessary for future changes. Deal with it.

Deal with your mom.

This thread is really starting to piss me off.. CON are still the power nukers in this game. If you don't want to be a healer be a freakin Black Mage and stfu

Don't let it piss you off.. see the thread about the Conjurer who is getting turned away from parties because he wants to BLM it up. The game designers set prejudice, and the players fill it out. It's up to the designers, not the players.

so whats stoping all of you complainers from playing the role you want? party size is 8 plenty of room for a mage DD and a mage healer pick a type don't think u can main heal and main nuke in a single party. since when should a main tank be a main dd? pick a role play it dont try to do everything

First of all, you are assuming people are in here to complain. We are not. We're not here to be selfish. I'm thinking of others. It's not about one party or getting what I want from gear drops. It's about how game developer decisions affect how people are treated.

The same could be said for the way it was before. Before, CONs were expected to be a hybrid class. I was expected to nuke, but I didn't want to. I wanted to be a healer.

So, now, the tables are turned.

Maybe I'm biased. I play healers in all my MMOs. In FFXI I was a WHM. In WoW, I was a Holy Priest. In Aion, I was a Cleric. Being a party/raid healer is all I want to be.

Before, I never felt satisfied in my role. Now, I couldn't be happier with the direction that CON is going.

All of the abilities you had mentioned in your other post that you never used - I used those abilities all the time. That you didn't use them is consistent with what you said about wanting to heal. There's no question that healing gameplay is a lot more attention grabbing now. I'm glad that healers are having such a great time. The MAGE STRIKE isn't about that. It's about how people are already getting treated bad from other players. The dev team creates the treatment of others through the game systems. They raise MP costs.. guess who suffers: Lancer, Pugilist, Marauder, Thaumaturge, because their classes are made obsolete by the raising of MP costs. And all the players who played Conjurer offensively are made obsolete. It's too much to ask for 1 good change of exciting healing gameplay.

Healers should have their own class with their own mechanics that are attention grabbing enough without upsetting the balance of the entire game.

[Rowyne]

There's no question that healing gameplay is a lot more attention grabbing now. I'm glad that healers are having such a great time. The MAGE STRIKE isn't about that. It's about how people are already getting treated bad from other players.

I really do see where you're coming from, Neptune, but I truly see this change as SE trying to get the two magic classes more in line with their original descriptions, creating balance, and setting them up for the job system.

Despite the homogenized classes the armoury system created, each class still fit into a general archetype, except for the mages. GLD's are tanks, PUG, MRD, and LNC are melee DD, ARC is ranged DD, and CON/THM... well, are they ranged DD, healers, or buffers/debuffers? Whether originally intended or not, the answer is, all three. Which is honestly a balancing nightmare.

I understand how frustrating it is to be expected to play a certain way in a party that you don't find enjoyable. I really do. As a healing CON, I'm sick of being a hybrid jack-of-all-trades class and being told on these forums that if I don't like to do both damage and heal that maybe this isn't the game for me. So, trust me, I understand now that DD CONs being told to heal or GTFO is also unfair. But if this post is more about what the community expects a CON or a THM to be in a party, then that issue should be largely remedied when jobs are implemented. Those who want to nuke can be BLM, those who want to heal can be WHM.

Hopefully... it will be simple as that.

[Kurai]

cba with long replies so here go's

make sacrifice and MP siphon AoE and will be happy. i lvled tham to 50 to get sac 3 now it is bloody usless in a party situation. atleast make it AoE for Conj use, really dont care about thaum anymore and i am fast losing interest in this game. to be honest i dont even know why i am typing this as SE are never gonna read it or pay any attention

[ChelseaPride]

lol, this shit is still going? Simple... adapt or quit... that goes for all classes.