Booing when Coil2 Nerf was announced

[Atomnium]

Honestly just let this thread die, because so far it's become a gang of 5 or 6 people just thumbs up'ing eachothers posts, patting eachother on the back and ignoring any point made from the oposition.

And why should they care about us right? All we are to them are hardcore elitists that apparently love torturing ourselves by content that can only be completed by a super-human...

^ pretty much this, if only they had something else as an arguments than the typical /Irl-Card, /SoHard-Card, /ElitePlayersReJerks-card or even /IpayForThis-Card... There is actually some points (me, as a raider) where I could somehow agree, like a longer "enrage" limitation, it would sound acceptable to be good at game mechanics but not perfect as dps check maybe? (cause of stress or idk :P), it could lead to interesting discuss without the obvious anger they share to us... But nope : /whine

And on a side note, the booing really happened and Yoshida made a very surprised face because :

It kind of shows who the vocal minority are to me when the forums are littered with people whining about difficulty but when a fan gathering is held the true feelings are much more obvious.

Yep, yep, yep, wish I could had liked more than once this reply. So... Who re the real poisons over this community? The fans? Or the whiners? Whining on this forum is the reason why the Final Fantasy fans can't have more than 45 minutes of raid content the Tuesday :x. Shame on you.

[MeiUshu]

@<Sessurea

Skilles come with trials and mistakes, once you have experienced all these, you become skilled why ? because you do know what to expect, someone that makes it at the first attempt ever is not skilled, was just lucky, to learn something, anything really, you need to do it over and over and over again once you have done it over and over and over again you acquire the knowledge, knowledge is power and in this game knowedge is skill. There is a BUT though, you may be the most skilled person in the world but there is one thing that you have no control over is how the other 7 people in your group are doing, they may be skilled, but in a bad day, they may be new, they may be slow, so really, you being skilled means sqwat if the rest is not. Equally, if you have 7 skilled and one unskilled, the unskilled will pass at the first attempt but he still be unskilled...

Nothing is hard once you know, but to know you need to fail simple as that
Just me though

Mei

[ReplicaX]

And on a side note, the booing really happened and Yoshida made a very surprised face because...

I really don't buy that. I feel he was surprised from the over-reaction as its been past practice and 7 months since it was released. It explains why both Yoshi and Mr. G had to take more time explaining they are going to evaluate 2nd Coil progression after Patch release before even implementing changes and see when to add Echo.

Both sides have whiners, assumptions, over-reaction, and poison the community. To think otherwise is turning a blind eye and this thread if anything is a perfect example of it all.


I have been neutral this whole time:
- I agree with the Dev Team taking the Middle Ground. (its 7 months old and will likely get a Savage mode like 1st Coil).
- I agree that raids like this take time to learn and are challenging, however once on farm status the only challenge is a RNG and an option to streamline strats even further as you have progressively gotten better gear and memorized all mechanics.

The only thing I can bash coil for was giving it Lore on the Calamity as it was the main cannon for the end of 1.0 and the start of the Realm Reborn storyline. I hope SE learns from it and just makes something completely side story and not so connected to the main cannon for the 3.0 Endgame Raid.

The last thing I can say is that if you have your way, and all the content in this game is watered down to a ridiculously low level, then this game is going to die, and hard.

A statement like this has nothing to do with hrs of gameplay, BiS, Hardcore, Casual, RL priorities, Raiders, Elitists, or who the "true loyal fans are".

You just over-react and have zero faith in the Dev Team. Yet here you are trying to defend their "original version" of Raid Content and praising its challenge. From day one the Dev Team has stated dated content will be evaluated and if need be adjusted. Savage was made to retain that challenge as you already got the rewards. This is the Middle Ground.

This thread is completely beaten to death now. Unlike some, I will actually leave it behind and end my contribution without an extreme over-reaction.

[Gilraen]

I think the bigger point with 'nerfing' Turns 6-9 wasn't to make it easier but to entice the majority to give it a try. Before it's 'nerf' Turns 1-5 only saw a small portion of the game population giving it weekly runs. Afterwards the number of players trying it skyrocketed. This was mostly due to the minority practically keeping the inexperienced out through various unbecoming tactics, though it's difficulty can't be ignored. Twintania still presents a hurdle to many in the community despite the changes. With the lessening of Turns 6-9's difficulty I have no doubt we'll see another influx of players trying said content (assuming they can get past Twintania). How this is seen as a bad thing I don't understand.

[Artiste]

The hardest part about coil is finding a group to run it with regularly. Coil itself is a total joke. Savage is more like the true glimpse of what a challenging raid would be.

Guess you didn't try at begining, with 90 ilvl, just the minimal to do it.
Now you, we overgear it, we can play like, do an average DPS, it's ok, miss a heal, it's still ok (before miss the timing of one heal could be a death of the tank), tank forget to put a CD, or take the adds, still ok.
Also, more DPS = switch phases faster, and mkae the fight easier, I remind when we where doing T9 P3, and we had one more tower, also 5, and sometime even 6 rocks en P1 (6 if 1 dead).

Now on phase1, we have 4 rocks, we skip at least 1 or 2 beak, I remind also, there was a blight, we had to use allowed ground, before the boss was doing blight + jump (the jump back after a fly) on the tank.
And also one more Lunar Dynamo.

For P2 also, there was difference, even if it was less, like the golems killed faster : easier to heal the tank that have the green, and when switch, if green on DPS, he need to die fast before he kill a DPS, it was more close on DPS there, now it's just simple, even if someone die there is still enough DPS.

[Tiggy]

This was mostly due to the minority practically keeping the inexperienced out through various unbecoming tactics,

There is nothing raiders can do about the level lock out each week. The game is designed in such a way to deliberately promote statics so that we can make efficient progress into the harder fights. This wasn't some devious tactic to shut people out. It's this kind of rhetoric that attempts to make raiders out to be some sort of elitist jerks even though we're just using the system as it's presented to us. Many of us would gladly help others if the system was unlocked, and it will be in 2.45.

[Giyari]

I swear all people want is content so difficult that no one can beat it, because apparently if the content can be cleared, it is deemed "too easy".

[Fumijj_Gah]

I swear all people want is content so difficult that no one can beat it, because apparently if the content can be cleared, it is deemed "too easy".

Hmmm, looking for the extremely rare or unique gear/item and end game progress is MMORPGs' life: there's no reason to focus and to handle end game fights if progress and gear are for everyone.
Playing to improve your gameplay, yourself as gamer and as character, surrounded by nice and trusted people or friends: this is MMO (not only RPG).

If you want story, there's lot of offline j-RPG with a way greater plot: I hardly suggest someone in this thread to quit MMO and look around for masterpieces like Final Fantasy IX, Xenogears, Chrono Cross and Vagrant Story.
Still, you will need lot of patience and dedication. If you don't have it, maybe it's better to change hobby. : P

[Tiggy]

I swear all people want is content so difficult that no one can beat it, because apparently if the content can be cleared, it is deemed "too easy".

A lot of people here aren't arguing for that. They just don't want it nerfed completely to the lowest common denominator so that you can stumble through it and get a victory. It doesn't breed good players, and will simply help widen the divide between "skilled" and "unskilled" players by removing anything that resembles a middle ground. There needs to be content that acts as a stepping stone to help players improve. Turn 5 still serves that purpose today since Turn 5 isn't that difficult after gear and echo, and It has at most 2 mechanics that get people killed. If they can not handle those 2 simple mechanics that then they are going to have severe issues when T6+ are released in a week. It's not good for game balance to make it too incredibly easy. It would only serve to make the existing gulf between skilled and unskilled worse, and the arguments in threads like these more extreme. It would not be good for the game at all.

Everyone asking for a super easy mode should really consider the broader consequences of such a thing and not just about the people who have a tough time. It sucks to be one of those players who can't beat it I'm sure, but a super nerf effects far more than just those few players who find turns too tough. It's a game balance issue.

[Artiste]

I swear all people want is content so difficult that no one can beat it, because apparently if the content can be cleared, it is deemed "too easy".

Yeah, does guys... If they want difficulty, they should go with as low gear as possible, they'll see how it can be hard, like first team did it with what ? 95 ilvl ? Good luck guys.
Now yes, they do it with 110 ilvl, it's like 5-10more then the minimal you need to clear it with an average team, so OFC, it's too easy.

@Tiggy : They can had 50% eccho buff if they want, noob never gonna pass T7, this never gonna be a free kill.