Cash shop confirmed

[Tsunenori]

While we're at it, meteors are coming and we're all doomed. But we could be saved by the sky wizard who will bless us with wings right?

I'm sorry, but the wings will cost $5 per pair at the shop.

Jokes aside, I'm fine with the shop. I'm not going to bash it before we've had some time to see how they plan to use it and what kind of stuff they want to put in it. If after a couple of months it's looking grim then I'll voice my concerns, but until we've actually seen it everything is just assumption.

[Asierid]

assumption.

Well damn. Someone finally guessed the entire theme of this thread. /cookie

That's it then, go home folks.

[Tsunenori]

Well damn. Someone finally guessed the entire theme of this thread. /cookie

That's it then, go home folks.

Not sure if positive reply or negative. Still, while I admit that 99 pages is a bit much to read through, I think I have a fairly decent idea of the types of conversations had in here. People are right to be wary of it I think, because there are plenty of companies that have milked customers for all they're worth using cash shops over the past few years. It's a trend that is probably still going to get a bit worse before it gets better. We're in a weird period where everyone is trying to figure out the best way to handle it, and I think some companies do a better job than others.

Across however many threads at this point one tends to see the same kinds of replies, even where the cash shop isn't in the discussion at first. "Oh, sorry but that'll cost ______ in the cash shop." Personally I'd rather wait and see where they want to go with it first before assuming that I'll have to pay money for every little thing in the game. I've spoken to others I play with as well and the response is mostly the same. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind with this necessarily, but rather just doing what everyone else here has and giving my opinion.

[Tupsi]

Not sure if positive reply or negative. Still, while I admit that 99 pages is a bit much to read through, I think I have a fairly decent idea of the types of conversations had in here.

Tl;dr version:

Against: "No P2P MMO should have a Cash Shop, I mean, look at all of the MMOs that milk players with game breaking items. I forgot to mention these are F2P and Pay to Win MMORPGs and never has happened in a P2P MMO before."

For: "Eh, doesn't bother me I just won't use it as I can still play the game just fine."

Neutral/Don't Care: "Let's wait and see what happens."

Against: "WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THEY WILL SELL GAME BREAKING ITEMS! THEY WILL TAKE CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME TO RESELL IT TO YOU! HOW ARE YOU OK WITH THIS?"

Rinse and Repeat for 99 pages.

[Starlord]

Tl;dr version:

Against: "No P2P MMO should have a Cash Shop, I mean, look at all of the MMOs that milk players with game breaking items. I forgot to mention these are F2P and Pay to Win MMORPGs and never has happened in a P2P MMO before."

For: "Eh, doesn't bother me I just won't use it as I can still play the game just fine."

Neutral/Don't Care: "Let's wait and see what happens."

Against: "WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THEY WILL SELL GAME BREAKING ITEMS! THEY WILL TAKE CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME TO RESELL IT TO YOU! HOW ARE YOU OK WITH THIS?"

Rinse and Repeat for 99 pages.

Man, I don't normally agree with you, but you hit the nail right on the head with everyone's reaction XD.

[Yshnal]

Tl;dr version:

Against: "No P2P MMO should have a Cash Shop, I mean, look at all of the MMOs that milk players with game breaking items. I forgot to mention these are F2P and Pay to Win MMORPGs and never has happened in a P2P MMO before."

For: "Eh, doesn't bother me I just won't use it as I can still play the game just fine."

Neutral/Don't Care: "Let's wait and see what happens."

Against: "WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THEY WILL SELL GAME BREAKING ITEMS! THEY WILL TAKE CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME TO RESELL IT TO YOU! HOW ARE YOU OK WITH THIS?"

Rinse and Repeat for 99 pages.

Nice try, but what we're saying is the following:

1) Before the introduction of the cash shop you could buy past years' event items for a small gil fee. Now you have to pay real cash, just because.

2) As the dev. team doesn't have unlimited time, it means that part of the time that would otherwise go to develop things for everyone to enjoy will go now to the cash shop.

3) We're more than sure that they'll throw the cool looking designs to the cash shop, and the normal/ugly ones will be the ones that we'll get for "free". You don't have to be very smart to see that, as they want to be able to SELL them, not having them sitting there with no sales.

4) We already had this discussion when the extra retainers were introduced, with people saying "it won't get worse, you're paranoid", "it's just retainers, they won't put a cash shop", and "I'm sure that ventures will be hard to get", among other excuses. History is repeating again, and some people keep their blindfolds no matter what.

5) We're already paying a sub, and the game is very successful. SE doesn't need the money and, coupled with 1), it's a slap in the face of all of their customers. In other words, this not very customer friendly, and we're in our right to voice our concerns (and even stop paying if we so want).

6) Just because it's vanity that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter. Everyone plays (or has been playing for over 4 years) the game for a reason, and they're in their right to enjoy it doing whatever they want to do. Just because you only care about raids that doesn't mean that other people shouldn't enjoy collecting vanity items (see housing, for instance). Getting some of it out of their reach all of a sudden is a cheap move on SE's part.

7) Minions attached to physical items don't fall under a cash shop category, even if they're almost crossing the line. After all, what you're supposed to be buying is the physical thing, and the minion is a gift. Not to mention that physical items can't be produced as fast as digital ones, so this doesn't have the same screwing potential as a cash shop does.

8) Expansions are NOT the same thing as this. The price of it VS it's value regarding content, systems, etc. is more fair that paying 2-5€ for a single digital item.

9) If we wanted to have a cash shop we could be playing another MMO, even those P2P ones that already had one. Maybe we were here partly because it didn't have that "feature"?

Now you can put words in our mouths again, or mock us, please.

[Tupsi]

Nice try, but what we're saying is the following:

1) Before the introduction of the cash shop you could buy past years' event items for a small gil fee. Now you have to pay real cash, just because.

Still can. Calamity Salvager. If you just joined you already missed the event and thus the items - Just because they offered it before doesn't mean they'll continue to do so. Even Yoshida said this during his take over in 1.x.

2) As the dev. team doesn't have unlimited time, it means that part of the time that would otherwise go to develop things for everyone to enjoy will go now to the cash shop.

Anyone with an iota of development experience would know that the item team makes items in batches then adds them to the game's data. What is done with them is up to the managerial team, this "cash shop items" aren't extra development time. Look at Patches 2.1-2.3, do you truly think they'd do less than what they've already been doing?

3) We're more than sure that they'll throw the cool looking designs to the cash shop

Tell me this week's lotto numbers please.

5) We're already paying a sub, and the game is very successful. SE doesn't need the money

This community is the only community I've ever seen that would say a business doesn't need money.

6) Just because it's vanity that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter.

Your words. Trying to put it on the same importance as raid content is why we got Crafting mats in Hard Mode dungeons instead of gear drops. "These items are hard to get, make em easier, they're just as important as gear!"...how'd that turn out?

7) Minions attached to physical items don't fall under a cash shop category

Cash Shop: Purchase Item that you can't obtain normally in-game.
Physical Item with In-Game Item Code: Purchase item and use in-game code to obtain the item you can't get in-game normally. No matter how you slice it, using the logic that's been presented both are the same thing - you can't obtain neither in-game by normal means.

8) Expansions are NOT the same thing as this

"But I pay a sub, therefore I should get access to expansion content for free. Because I pay a sub. SE doesn't need the money."

9) If we wanted to have a cash shop we could be playing another MMO

Cash Shops are an MMORPG standard just like having Quest Markers have become an MMO standard, same with "Route Guidance" in MMORPGs. You can't argue against that, it's like trying to say "Energy" based mobile games like candy crush are rare.

[ApolloGenX]

Cash Shops are an MMORPG standard just like having Quest Markers have become an MMO standard, same with "Route Guidance" in MMORPGs. You can't argue against that, it's like trying to say "Energy" based mobile games like candy crush are rare.

This is true.

Everything else you post seems to be "You don't know the future - so you don't know that they will do that" ... to which I will respond

"You don't know the future- you don't know they WON'T do that".

I will also point out that while you seem to accept the cash shop standard in MMOs... you seem to largely ignore how they are implemented.. which is confusing.

[Yshnal]

Snip

I like how you cut and forget key parts of my points to be able to "prove" yours, together with your strawman arguments, as usual.

I'm done with you. Have fun :3

[Dwill]

what I read here is hilarious.

best part:
"SE doesn't need the money."

IT IS AN ENTERPRISE.
ENTERPRISES GOAL: MAKING MONEY.
THEY WILL MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY CAN POSSIBLY GET.
DEAL WITH IT.

It's even funnier when you know that in 2013, they had 22% less net assets than they did in 2010.

Nice try, but what we're saying is the following:

1) Before the introduction of the cash shop you could buy past years' event items for a small gil fee. Now you have to pay real cash, just because.

As it has been stated, Calamity Salvager.

2) As the dev. team doesn't have unlimited time, it means that part of the time that would otherwise go to develop things for everyone to enjoy will go now to the cash shop.

The development team is not a single entity. People who design instances are not the same people who design the items and these people are not the same who do animation and these people don't design world content, etc. So while it might add some slight workload for the people who do items, it's not going to be something drastic. You're speaking like you have for a guarantee that they will be doing multiple sets of gear every week for the shop and left with minimal time for the game itself when that's just pure conjecture.

3) We're more than sure that they'll throw the cool looking designs to the cash shop, and the normal/ugly ones will be the ones that we'll get for "free". You don't have to be very smart to see that, as they want to be able to SELL them, not having them sitting there with no sales.

Again, pure conjecture. If anything, the new Koenig and Aries recipes coming in 2.4 are a point against you.

4) We already had this discussion when the extra retainers were introduced, with people saying "it won't get worse, you're paranoid", "it's just retainers, they won't put a cash shop", and "I'm sure that ventures will be hard to get", among other excuses. History is repeating again, and some people keep their blindfolds no matter what.

I never saw those threads but then again, I wasn't as active back then so I really can't say anything here on this point.

5) We're already paying a sub, and the game is very successful. SE doesn't need the money and, coupled with1), it's a slap in the face of all of their customers. In other words, this not very customer friendly, and we're in our right to voice our concerns (and even stop paying if we so want).

(Bolded part)I assumed that after posting the link to their financial records at least 3 times in this thread that people would stop spreading this lie:

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/ne...q4earnings.pdf
http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/pdf/ar_2013_01en.pdf

6) Just because it's vanity that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter. Everyone plays (or has been playing for over 4 years) the game for a reason, and they're in their right to enjoy it doing whatever they want to do. Just because you only care about raids that doesn't mean that other people shouldn't enjoy collecting vanity items (see housing, for instance). Getting some of it out of their reach all of a sudden is a cheap move on SE's part.

And nothing prevents you from getting other vanity items in game but you're not entitled to all the other content they create. It states as much in the User Agreement you agreed to. If you want to look it up:

http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en

Section 4.1

7) Minions attached to physical items don't fall under a cash shop category, even if they're almost crossing the line. After all, what you're supposed to be buying is the physical thing, and the minion is a gift. Not to mention that physical items can't be produced as fast as digital ones, so this doesn't have the same screwing potential as a cash shop does.

Actually, it's the same concept. Vanity attached to a price. The 3 people I know who got the CD all did so for the minion attached to it and most minion collector perfectionist will have bought the CD because else, their collection would remain incomplete.

8) Expansions are NOT the same thing as this. The price of it VS it's value regarding content, systems, etc. is more fair that paying 2-5€ for a single digital item.

Well the thing is that you have no choice to buy the expansion else you're stuck in past content without any means to progress so using the expansion pack in a cash shop argument is stupid on both side of this argument as it's a necessity and it always has been.

9) If we wanted to have a cash shop we could be playing another MMO, even those P2P ones that already had one. Maybe we were here partly because it didn't have that "feature"?

I still can't understand how a cash shop that you're not forced to buy from can be a deal breaker on a game you supposedly enjoy playing.