Goodbye cleric stance.. you will be sorely missed

[Zyphione]

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If long post was big problem for you then maybe should have ask me for shorter version or for clarity on what I say?
This is manners.
I understand if post too long for you because I sum up my thought and idea as whole so I do not need reply later and spam thread like many do. This is forum. Such thing is more than common depend on context of original posting?

You had option not to reply or thinking over course of time before replying. Pointing out long post have nothing to do with it, I never ask for reply within 2 hour or even within day. I would say you have time to think over what I post or read slowly and plan idea? Instead choose to reply as soon as possible?
Then is less my fault and more yours.

It was explanation for you to understand and even if you do not reply I am ok because my reason for write the last post is explanation. This natural mean post is long?

I have say before you had option to ask for clarification, instead choose not to. You say is misunderstanding on my part as well? I have misunderstand nothing since you seem to have better English than I do? Then your thought would be very clear for me to see.
Am I right to say this?

The only misunderstanding would be on your side due to not able to read properly for one of many reason but "novel" do not qualify as such reason. I find it silly you complain about long post and difficulty to find what I try to say, when all you need to do is ask politely for summary on what you want to know.

Politeness not natural? Instead choose to be impulsive then blame my English?

My last post only long because I say at start, I try to explain to you everything of what you cherrypick. Maybe should work on skimming skill? I can not sympathize as I do not have such reading problem with "novel" post.

I hope this pic would resolve your doubt:
Not everyone can be reasoning. Lack of progressive and constructive argument is probably why community manager still not reacting at this point. If they want to be tapped in the grief, let them be. I have suggested them an option of taking this to the producer open letter, rest is up to them.

Picture is more true than most thing and all I say in reply is:


Underline problem is many people suffer rational ignorance? If so then really time wasted. I would have give up actually but you have post many explanation so I try to help explain too since I understand where you come from in your viewpoint.

But if really so many do not bother to learn then I agree with you since not everyone can be logical.
Very wise saying, thank you for remind.

I do not think even they will ask Producer and will just make more thread for complain, make me wonder what happen in 2.4.

[Nekomataempusin]

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At this point I think you are just arguing for arguments sake.

Also, if YOU bothered to look at my profile, which I'm sure you did, you would remember that I have multiple classes leveled. I have experience playing classes aside from SMN/SCH. I have played WHM on FL. You're just looking for ways to try and pick apart things people say now.

Also, what Kisada said was common knowledge. The people who are ignorant on how to optimize their class complain that something is "OP" when they are able to not be raped by their DPS onslaught. Also, it was very clearly a poor and lazy decision to remove CS rather than adjust some things and letting it alone.

And yes, there is a lack of healers issue that is starting to inflict FL. Immortal Flames has it the hardest.

snip

People tend to not listen to long-winded "I know better than you" speeches. Also Gor has been arguing against this from the posts I read of hers.

[Sonoran]

So a lot of healers here also seem to agree that cleric stance or healer DPS needed to be nerfed...I totally agree it did and yes I also play SCH/WHM. So if they put cleric stance back, what DPS % should healers be nerfed? 50%? 80%? 20%? IMO the number has to be fairly high because healers are too strong in heals and DPS...thats why they nerfed cleric stance...so even if they return it they still need to heavily nerf healer DPS....so how much is fair? What if they put cleric stance back and nerf heals somewhat...is that better?

[Divinemight]

At this point I think you are just arguing for arguments sake.

People tend to not listen to long-winded "I know better than you" speeches. Also Gor has been arguing against this from the posts I read of hers.

Take a mirror, you are describing yourself. You are either miss the point I am making or the selective hearing got you...... There a good number of healing players who agreed that Clearic stance is too much on PvP. Why are their opinions being ignored? Clearly it is selective hearing in play.

because it gives a small alternative to healing and it makes the class more fun so healers don't have to just stand around and just heal. to have a defense because SCHs don't have any other than bubbles and eos heals provided she doesn't get cc'd or killed. being able to 1v1 does not make a class all-round. the damage output is not as high as a dps and really once SCHS have no Aetherflow stacks ofr Energy Drain left, the damage is very low and weak. and in a group setting, healer dps is irrelevant other than being able to miasma-up everything. just as you said, i would agree to cleric being toned down as well, but i don't agree with it being 100% being taken out.

You are attacking other people based on reason that they haven't tried healer on the Frontline, correct? What about you own profile? It is clearly that you you only tried 2 lvl50 job.

My comment still stands, that is an essay lacking of insights and constructive arguments, ranting at the best. Stop waste your time, if you have a gut, do it:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...neral%29/page3

If you can't do it, ask Kisada to do it, just remind him to take away ranting and makes his question appealing. Type "how to make argument appealing to others" on the google if you need.

[Divinemight]

Picture is more true than most thing and all I say in reply is:


Underline problem is many people suffer rational ignorance? If so then really time wasted. I would have give up actually but you have post many explanation so I try to help explain too since I understand where you come from in your viewpoint.

But if really so many do not bother to learn then I agree with you since not everyone can be logical.
Very wise saying, thank you for remind.

I do not think even they will ask Producer and will just make more thread for complain, make me wonder what happen in 2.4.

Selective hearing is amazing. Read OP and last 2 pages is also fantastic. This is why most of threads on this Fourm end up with ranting.

[Nekomataempusin]

snip

My comments hardly compare to his in length. My comments are also in a readable format that can be understood by the majority of the people in these forums. Also, why are you assuming I haven't done SCH on FL or Wolve's Den? Btw I'm not attacking people, just you ^w^ I can forgive many things, but arrogance isn't one.

You have more of a selective hearing problem than I do, because your opinion is all that matters apparently. As I pointed out, it was various reasons that brought about the removal of Cleric Stance, as many others did, and I argue that in loo of taking time to sort the real problem out, SE just flat out gimped certain aspects of the game.

I've stated my argument, you just refuse to acknowledge it. Your condescending tone is rude and simply childish. And I will post in that question thread you linked. I will place my argument there and i'm sure it will be more readily acknowledged than your one-man crusade to be a total ass and try to say people's opinions don't matter.

[Divinemight]

I've stated my argument, you just refuse to acknowledge it.

I am so glad that this Fourm allows you to recall post history:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...rchid=25094864

Let's see your point of entry into this discussion.

Both of you need to stop talking. I'm a WHM and I see the long scale ramification of this.
Copestetic; Your sarcasm is not needed nor wanted. As many people have pointed out, SCH does not heal as strongly as WHM because they are a hybrid class of DPS and Heals. Also, what happens when all those PvP skill that take off debuffs instantly are used up and recharging? Any healer would be screwed because interrupts are going to assail them.
Lucke Arrayo; You are a tank. If you do not play a healer class you do not understand the shit we put up with. While we are on the subject, how about you tanks ONLY tank.
If a healer is backed into a corner, be it WHM or SCH, and they keep getting interrupted and all their PvP skills/Fixes for debuffs are used up, do you HONESTLY think they will survive? No. Do not insult the intelligence and valid concerns of those who this affects most of all.

Word to word. You told two posters to shut up because of what? You are a healer? What is your second post? Alright, told another poster to shut up because he is not a healer (but ignored the fact this one is sitting on WHM).

The rest of posts are just bunch of non senses. Even have to drag Kisada to this because you don't have an argument of your own. All you have been saying is no one should talk because they are not healer, but when healer players are saying cleric stance nerf is fine. Your selective hearing ignored them.

Let me spit out for you since you don't get it. I am referring your issue as because you have only tried healers on the frontline, you are unable to understand other jobs' perspective.

Stop dodging the bullet. Are you going to do open letter or not?

[Nekomataempusin]

Stop dodging the bullet. Are you going to do open letter or not?

Already did. In response to you're little criticism, those two were being stupid and rude over opinions that didn't mesh with their own. I called them out on it.

By the by, I've talked to people who play other classes in Frontlines. I ask questions in game when they come to mind, and I learn how to work with other classes to get the desired outcome. I've played BRD in PvP and understand how much of a target they can be since range is a pain in the ass to deal with (SMN is ranged as well). And yet though I know things, there are still some aspects I would be ignorant to. Mayhaps your experience as a BRD varies from the ones I encounter, both on my team and against. They have held up on their own very well when in placement and also in 1vs1 scenarios.

[Divinemight]

Already did. In response to you're little criticism, those two were being stupid and rude over opinions that didn't mesh with their own. I called them out on it.

By the by, I've talked to people who play other classes in Frontlines. I ask questions in game when they come to mind, and I learn how to work with other classes to get the desired outcome. I've played BRD in PvP and understand how much of a target they can be since range is a pain in the ass to deal with (SMN is ranged as well). And yet though I know things, there are still some aspects I would be ignorant to. Mayhaps your experience as a BRD varies from the ones I encounter, both on my team and against. They have held up on their own very well when in placement and also in 1vs1 scenarios.

Good. This is more productive, but I suggest you to edit wording a bit. It is still sound a little ranting.

Everyone has different online gaming experience. While many are criticizing Flames performance, hey are aggressive in my game. You can not rely on the words of others. You need to actually play it to understand. It is a bad idea to sit on one job, this is armoury system, try other jobs to find out why they think SCH and WHM is too much of their role.

[WizArt]

I shall be posting according to the para, in red, as it comes up for reading.

At this point I think you are just arguing for arguments sake.

Also, if YOU bothered to look at my profile, which I'm sure you did, you would remember that I have multiple classes leveled. I have experience playing classes aside from SMN/SCH. I have played WHM on FL. You're just looking for ways to try and pick apart things people say now.

May I kindly remind readers and posters alike that FF14 is a game. Games are meant to be played for enjoyment unless it is a profession, of which, most are not. Having many classes in a game only tells me how much of real time a person has to kill. I'm speaking for myself as well, since I do have many classes as anyone can easily verify.

Also, what Kisada said was common knowledge. The people who are ignorant on how to optimize their class complain that something is "OP" when they are able to not be raped by their DPS onslaught. Also, it was very clearly a poor and lazy decision to remove CS rather than adjust some things and letting it alone.

Question : how is removing cleric stance a 'poor and lazy' decision?I am not a game programmer or any IT techie in my profession, but I do know that any decision to change any aspects of game play, IS NEVER lazy nor poor; since poor is hardly an accurate word to describe a game play decision. ANY business decision is never easy and if it involves game play, would have been discussed in their back room thoroughly because the developers are Asian, and being Asian, they are generally not in favour of making drastic changes preferring to stick with what works.

And yes, there is a lack of healers issue that is starting to inflict FL. Immortal Flames has it the hardest.

Gamers tend to whine a lot and expect nerfs or buffs, because it IS the easier way out when compared to working around the fresh hurdle and learning to get better. When one plays with less, one tends to learn more - which also applies to real life. We do not give out answer keys, to facilitate learning in schools. Thing is, people don't like change that creates a new unfamiliar environment for them instead of taking it in their stride and learning again. Hey, if anyone is that good, this game will just be a game we all will log into, to kill time and there will be less mindless arguments in the forum but more constructive ones.