"To Improve PvP game balance, the ability Cleric Stance will no longer be usable"

[Gor]

[I]It will just turn your role into a more offensive support, which is the role people here want to play. It's just not as effective as before.

the majority of healers do not want to play an offensive role. we just wanted a viable option of a dps role to be there in case we needed to defend ourselves or if we weren't being pressured we could assist with damage. i only know of two SCHs who actually went Cleric as a main role which was a shame because they insisted on doing that rather than healing their group so their alliances often failed at bases if there weren't at least 2 other healers to support their bad a$$e$.

[Awdogsgo2heaven]

I may not come back after this... They ruined what was the most interesting class for me. They keep everything so dumbed down and simplified it's boring. I can only hope Ninja will bring me renewed interest but I doubt it at this point.

[Fyce]

we just wanted a viable option of a dps role to be there in case we needed to defend ourselves or if we weren't being pressured we could assist with damage.

You are not supposed to be able to have an answer to every situation just by yourself, especially if it requires you the press of a single button.

As I said, if you want to have an hybrid role, equip yourself accordingly, and yes, there will be trade-offs. You can't have everything for free.

[Divinemight]

I may not come back after this... They ruined what was the most interesting class for me. They keep everything so dumbed down and simplified it's boring. I can only hope Ninja will bring me renewed interest but I doubt it at this point.

Let you swap between dps and healer with one bottom without any form of trade off or penalty is actually a dumb down mechanic that they took away. You still can play Scholar as dps with correct attribute and gear setup, but since you made yourself sound like an opportunist, don't really matter you are coming back or not. WoW is probably better for you, no offence, they usually got one imbalance spec per patch.

[Gor]

Let you swap between dps and healer with one bottom without any form of trade off or penalty is actually a dumb down mechanic that they took away.

untrue and you're over-exaggerating just because you are so hard-boiled on hating on healers. there are penalties and trade offs for swapping to dps from heals. just because they are trade-offs or penalties you may not like, doesn't mean they don't exist. the trade offs/penalties for swapping to dps from heals are as we have repeated to you and everyone time and time again are:

1. when swapping to dps, the healer cannot swap back to heals for 5 seconds which leaves you time to get smashed because you won't be able to heal for crap
2. when healing in Cleric, there is a 20% healing reduction, so instead of healing for 500-800, you are now healing for only 200-300 which isn't enough to sustain you or anyone else

there is a price to pay to dps and every healer has had a time they paid that price to dps over healing, with their death

[Divinemight]

Opinion

Get it over with Gor, you need to stop those pointless accuse when you don't even have evidence to back yourself.

1 Started as WHM in FF11, check
2. Have RDM in FF11, check
3. Played Holy Paladin in WoW TBC, check

Don't throw those none sense at me. I am pretty much sitting on Warrior while gearing BLM for the Frontline, but I am keep saying Warrior need a self healing to be tune down . Does that makes me a Warrior hater now?

Don't through me with that can't kill healer crap. You are not the only one know how to PvP here. I know how to setup fatal blow on any job I have played. Not to mention, Wrrior is closed to be best all around job in which I find it is unreasonable.

Your doomsday theory about no one will play healer is proven wrong, only the number of players who played as dps went down. This is not first time I am hearing nerf made a class/ job unplayable and it is never a truth.

Did I ever said anything about total removals of this action? I didn't . Evidences of what I have said are in two threads that everyone are free to look it up. I only said Clearic Stance need to be adjust with a penalty such as 80% healing reduction for the game balance purpose.

Cleric stance It is a dumb down mechanic for PvE purpose because a lot of quests in this game are designed for soloing. If you want to drag Paladin into the mud, sword oath is for that purpose too.

1. when swapping to dps, the healer cannot swap back to heals for 5 seconds which leaves you time to get smashed because you won't be able to heal for crap

Perfectly aware of, I am leveling a white Mage too. The fact is White Mage has fluid aura, duration is long enough to cover that period of time on top of WHM always keep regen.

Scholar has eos at 500 per 3s with sprint running around eos. Unless you have issue with pet control.

2. when healing in Cleric, there is a 20% healing reduction, so instead of healing for 500-800, you are now healing for only 200-300 which isn't enough to sustain you or anyone else

First of all, I want penalty goes to 80%, it is SE decided to remove it. Secondly, the people that turned on Cleric Stance has no intend to be healer. They are doing dps. They want to keep this stance that can dps and heal at same time ?

Ask you one last time, why do you need Cleric Stance to play as healer? I don't take to protect yourself in 1 v 1, no job should be All around.

[Gor]

random outburst

what a said was not a opinion, its a fact that those are the 2 penalties for healers who switch to cleric

Secondly, the people that turned on Cleric Stance has no intend to be healer. They are doing dps.

the healer who do this are the extreme minority. on our data center i have only seen a few healers who did this on a regular basis out of the dozens of healers we have.

why do you need Cleric Stance to play as healer? I don't take to protect yourself in 1 v 1, no job should be All around.

because it gives a small alternative to healing and it makes the class more fun so healers don't have to just stand around and just heal. to have a defense because SCHs don't have any other than bubbles and eos heals provided she doesn't get cc'd or killed. being able to 1v1 does not make a class all-round. the damage output is not as high as a dps and really once SCHS have no Aetherflow stacks ofr Energy Drain left, the damage is very low and weak. and in a group setting, healer dps is irrelevant other than being able to miasma-up everything. just as you said, i would agree to cleric being toned down as well, but i don't agree with it being 100% being taken out.

[Divinemight]

What a said was not a opinion, its a fact that those are the 2 penalties for healers who switch to cleric.

I heard you, but 20% is enough for PvE, but it is not enough for PvP when a job originally designed for 8 men party scale of the damage. This is main reason why I suggest this healing reduction need to be raise to 80%.

When a job actions are originally designed for PvE 8 men scale, they need different set of value to be used in PvP. After all, SE didn't have PvP in their mind during the initial planning for each job.

Takes Defiance for example, I barely feel 20% damage penalty is there because Wraith mechanic do provide bail out cards.

the healer who do this are the extreme minority. on our data center i have only seen a few healers who did this on a regular basis out of the dozens of healers we have.

This is not about who is right or who is wrong. Every one has different online gaming experience. Their number has caused issue on JP servers. While the situation is not as overwhelming on NA servers, but they do have a good percentage.

The game does not balance around few extraordinary players. Extraordinary players are minority. The game always balanced at broad, this is the common practice for all mmorpg games. There is no need to crucify SE for using the same practice.

Also, gaming company is paying attention to job distribution. When a certain job is over populated and a certain job is disappearing on the PvP. This is a signal to the development, something is wrong, and they need to take action to fix it. Like it or not, JP PvP community is bigger, and issue of healers infesting the Frontline emerged. Other job are disappearing, if my source is accurate, JP Paladins has been wiped out because they can only function as mediocre dps.

because it gives a small alternative to healing and it makes the class more fun so healers don't have to just stand around and just heal. to have a defense because SCHs don't have any other than bubbles and eos heals provided she doesn't get cc'd or killed. being able to 1v1 does not make a class all-round. the damage output is not as high as a dps and really once SCHS have no Aetherflow stacks ofr Energy Drain left, the damage is very low and weak. and in a group setting, healer dps is irrelevant other than being able to miasma-up everything. just as you said, i would agree to cleric being toned down as well, but i don't agree with it being 100% being taken out.

Like I have said many times, it is fine for players to play WHM and SCH. I am planning to play WHM as a dps myself. This is why I want to go through BLM first in order to get used to the pressure.

Cleric stance on other hand is too good to be true as a PvE based action. It need to be tune down to be fit into PvP environment. Me too, was shocked by SE of remove it. Yet, even when it is disabled, you still can do the same with correct attribute and accessories. You only lost the advantage to be sitting on vit accessories that is all.

[Domira]

If you aren't having fun with healer because of healing then you maybe playing the wrong class. Something I've seen mentioned from time to time in this thread and the other cleric stance thread is that this isn't a 1v1 game. That you need team work to kill the healer etc. But the main reason why players are complaining about the removal of cleric stance is for the reason that they can't 1v1 effectively anymore. Double standards? Certainly. Why not apply the same logic that is being used against non healers to the healing class? Aka work as a team.

I also want to bring up the comparison of sword oath to cleric stance, to do so is just grasping for straws in a attempt to justify the existence of cleric stance in pvp. The two skills are totally different. One increases your AUTO ATTACK (notice the caps) damage by 50% every 2.5 secs. And the other increases your overall damage by 10% in addition to swapping the mind stat with intelligence. Which in sum increases your overall damage by way more than 10%. The reason why sword oath is even used is because out of the two oaths, its the only one mildly effective in pvp. Shield oath is useless unless you are trying to escape from a zerg of people. So it comes down to sword oath, you either:

1.Do not use any oaths
2. Use Shield Oath and take a 20% damage reduction for a 20% damage mitigation. But who would do this? PLD is targeted last
3.Or you can use Sword Oath which doesn't have a damage penalty.

Its not being used for a damage increase but simply because PLD does not have any other option. In regards to Cleric Stances healing penalty, the penalty isn't as potent as it is in pve. No player hits as hard as dungeon or raid mobs to make the penalty a real issue. What they should do for cleric stance in pvp is change that healing reduction penalty to a damage reduction penalty. Aka you take 20% more damage with it enabled.

[Hailie]

that this isn't a 1v1 game. That you need team work to kill the healer etc. But the main reason why players are complaining about the removal of cleric stance is for the reason that they can't 1v1 effectively anymore. Double standards? Certainly.

We know its not a 1v1 game, It's that sometimes we don't have a CHOICE but to try to help ourselves... if a healer is being attacked while they are alone they should be able to defend.
Like I said before... if a healer is lagging behind their group and some DPS gets all excited wanting an easy kill, Healers should be able to do something.. not depend on others to help, it is not likely
others will help because they are greedy.

In FL Random groups with random ppl its all about who gets the most kills, most heals or most dmg. Every time I have done FL with random ppl it was every man for himself, ppl running off in their own directions.

This can go for dps as well... But the main reason why players are complaining about cleric stance is for the reason that they want to be able to kill healers easily without them putting up a fight. Double standards? Certainly.

Just my 2cents and opinion.