Ninja: Walk in shadow.

[JakzChurchill]

snip

I think you misinterpreted his wording on that one some punctuation would make it more readable.

The stat that increases your ranged attack? For melee weapons? You are right, that would be quite interesting. (I'll let you off though sarcasm doesn't translate well when not accompanied by a certain tone of voice)

But the tool tip isn't outdated, it just applies to weapons instead of skills. It maybe could do with clarifying this slightly but I don't think they should completely change it for one job. The simplicity it achieves at the moment serves it's purpose perfectly.

[NoctisUmbra]

snip

The simplicity would remain fully intact, just the tooltip wording would be changed, and that's not beyond something SE would do.

In the end, DEX and STR function identically for damage formulas, just one is used instead of the other in determining what the job's attack power is.

[Dynza]

I really don't want to get into an argument that relies on fallacy, but...

If the concern about ninja sharing accessories with other strength-based classes is perceived to somehow unbalance the classes, it fortunately does not. Already strength based classes compete with each other accessories, so the fact that another class comes in sharing the same accessories does not reduce the chances of said accessories from dropping. Those same accessories still have a similar chance of dropping just as before and the chance of obtaining said accessories still remains based on entirely on group composition (at least 20%). The eight-player full party could have four monks, or four dragoons, or four ninjas and in the end, it wouldn't matter how many strength based classes there are.There could be two, there could be one, there could be three. Unless the players themselves form an alliance for themselves consisting of 6 melee dps, the typical, balanced group (through duty finder or otherwise) generally won't see a change in overall drop rates, or chances to obtain said items. Players already compete with each other for chances to enter a group, through duty finder or elsewhere, this doesn't really change just because a new class enters the mix. Secondly, high-level accessories are already extremely rare drops. Most accessories are acquired through currencies, while most weapons are acquired through drops from boss monsters. This is unlikely to change in the short-run.

What will change, is the drop rate on weapons and armor. Like all other physical DPS classes, it is likely the Ninja will get its own set of gear at the level 50 range, in addition to seeing its own weapon drops in the level 15-50 range. In this particular realm, do the chances of players picking up new equipment decrease. But it would decrease regardless of the class entering the game. And in the long run, as more and more classes get introduced, more and more weapons and equipment needs to be introduced that can cater to them, especially when it comes to weapons.

As an aside, I'm currently going over the new video footage of the ninja from the anniversary video, lot's of great new information to discuss on here. Will post later.

[Synestr]

If SE were to implement the two stat weights, maybe the NIN will have different stances, similar to what clerics does. There are already items out there that give both STR and DEX, some with VIT as well. It is not too far fetched that SE would take us in a different direction with both stats. Being in "x" stance converts all dex to str for X skills, being in "y" stance converts all str to dex for y skills. Kind of like clerics I spose.

Who knows. Maybe we will in a month. As for now though, I am saving all this MNK gear that I am getting for just in case.

[Dynza]

If SE were to implement the two stat weights, maybe the NIN will have different stances, similar to what clerics does. There are already items out there that give both STR and DEX, some with VIT as well. It is not too far fetched that SE would take us in a different direction with both stats. Being in "x" stance converts all dex to str for X skills, being in "y" stance converts all str to dex for y skills. Kind of like clerics I spose.

Who knows. Maybe we will in a month. As for now though, I am saving all this MNK gear that I am getting for just in case.

The only possibility I can think of for Ninja requiring two different stats is for improving stealth and preventing discovery by enemies and PvP. In this sense, it's possible that the datamined information regarding improved Dex stats may be attempting to improve stealth, not physical melee damage.

[Dynza]

Anniversary Ninja Video Observations:
-Ninja animations seem to have been shortened.
-Lagomorph from FF6 appears when player messes up Ninjutsu.
-There are three Mudra signs, followed by an activation button. Further, each Mudra activated starts a count down buff on the side. This timer is likely used to force players to input their Mudras quickly and activate them before time runs out. You can move while casting Mudras.
-Ninja attacks seem to be a combination of a branching skill chain similar to Marauders and Gladiators and off-GCD attacks. One chain ends after the second hit, and the other chain finishes off on one of two third hits which leaves a debuff on the enemy target. The other interesting element is that the ninja has a number of off-GCD cooldown abilities that aren't Mudras and can be weaved into without breaking the attack chains. Many of these appear to be damage attacks as well as debuffs, but its unclear exactly what all of them do.
-The Ninja has a mouse-clickable teleport.
-Two Ninja abilities are greyed out until the Ninja casts a certain water elemental ninjutsu, providing a small buff. Once the buff was activated, the ninja was able to press one, and only one, of two grey-out abilities, though appeared available. This may be the choice attack debuff that Ninja's must consider when fighting enemies and choosing the right one for the right situation. Like the other Off-GCD abilities, these did not break the attack chain.
-This may not be final, but may of the ninja abilities are relatively cheap. Between 50 and 60 TP with ranged and AE attacks both costing 120. Yet we don't know the cost of Ninjutsu spells, which may actually cost MP or could equally cost TP.
-The Mudra activation button, changes its icon depending on how many Mudra were activated. Although, it seems to me that it might be representing the spell that will cast when pressed.
-There seems to be a pick-pocket skill. Steal, Pilfer, Mug, whatever you want to call it.
-One Off-GCD ability immediately finishes the cooldown on the Mudras allowing them to be instantly cast again.

[Synestr]

Watching the video again after reading your findings made more sense. It looks like it will be a lot of fun to play, the way the Mudra's build to change that one icon to toss a skill. The teleport looks cool, but I'm not sure if it is just gimicky atm. Can't wait to try it out though.

[Velhart]

The simplicity would remain fully intact, just the tooltip wording would be changed, and that's not beyond something SE would do.

In the end, DEX and STR function identically for damage formulas, just one is used instead of the other in determining what the job's attack power is.

I still haven't heard a good reason why SE should go outside the simple to understand formula they have in place now. So DEX would be NIN's stat for damage even though they are a melee. The descriptions to STR and DEX are shown clear as day. So if we go by this idea, STR and DEX's meaning changes simply by the role of the class/job alone just so "it looks cool to have DEX". You don't think this won't be confusing to new players at all? Keep it simple.

[Sigmakan]

I suspect NIN will share right side gear with BRD, but will have unique left side gear. Much like the relationship between DRG and MNK.

[NoctisUmbra]

I still haven't heard a good reason why SE should go outside the simple to understand formula they have in place now. So DEX would be NIN's stat for damage even though they are a melee. The descriptions to STR and DEX are shown clear as day. So if we go by this idea, STR and DEX's meaning changes simply by the role of the class/job alone just so "it looks cool to have DEX". You don't think this won't be confusing to new players at all? Keep it simple.

Other MMOs have had STR and DEX as stats. Many of said MMOs have given Scout type classes DEX priority. It isn't exactly an innovation that newcomers will need to wrap their minds around.

The reason has been, and remains to be, balance and general vision of the class and how they want to define the DEX stat moving forward. Keeping DEX as a physical+ranged stat only will make it widely underutilized whereas defining it as a precision-based offensive stat will, for example, have it make sense for both physical+ranged and scout-type classes moving forward.

I really don't want to get into an argument that relies on fallacy, but...

If the concern about ninja sharing accessories with other strength-based classes is perceived to somehow unbalance the classes, it fortunately does not. Already strength based classes compete with each other accessories, so the fact that another class comes in sharing the same accessories does not reduce the chances of said accessories from dropping. Those same accessories still have a similar chance of dropping just as before and the chance of obtaining said accessories still remains based on entirely on group composition (at least 20%).

I never once said anything about it affecting drop rates. The luck of the draw here is in DF. More classes existing that use STR means more likelyhood of getting DPS slots filled by jobs that use STR in the DF which means more competition for those items.

As you're leveling up, or doing endgame, if you're a BRD you only compete with other BRDs in the party. If you're a MNK, DRG or NIN, you will end up competing with anybody from those 3 jobs. Again, basic probability here. Competing with half the DPS roster vs competing with only your job.

You can go around calling fallacy all you like, but I still haven't seen a viable counter to the simple probability-based imbalance I am suggesting will occur if NIN is STR-based; just a lack of comprehension.