Ninja: Walk in shadow.

[JakzChurchill]

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I feel the opposite may also become true, where if they go out there way to create a balance now, it will set a precedence for the future classes, so when the inevitable in-balance comes; the player base will be up in arms. But if they stay on the current path of In-balance is the right balance, there's less chance to cause upset and more creative freedom allowed going forward.

[Velhart]

snip

May I ask where this imbalance is if there are more jobs on one gear set than another? This isn't a game of fill in the blanks. Developers decide what the game is currently lacking and implement the job from there. Right now they believe a stealth/rogue type class is missing and wants it in. Next they might even skip the gun class and put a new tank and healer in just because the game needs more of them. People don't look at my previous statement at all. It doesn't matter how many jobs can wear a certain gear set and accessories, there are only 4-6 DPS in a full party at the time. Highly unlikely they are all there lotting your same gear.

[NoctisUmbra]

May I ask where this imbalance is if there are more jobs on one gear set than another? This isn't a game of fill in the blanks. Developers decide what the game is currently lacking and implement the job from there. Right now they believe a stealth/rogue type class is missing and wants it in. Next they might even skip the gun class and put a new tank and healer in just because the game needs more of them. People don't look at my previous statement at all. It doesn't matter how many jobs can wear a certain gear set and accessories, there are only 4-6 DPS in a full party at the time. Highly unlikely they are all there lotting your same gear.

The more jobs share the same gear, the more likelihood of competition in a standard party. There really isn't anything difficult about understanding that if there are 6 DPS jobs and 3 types of DPS accessories, that having one of those types of accessories be shared by 3 jobs is rather unbalanced. Ideally it would be 2-2-2.

When the expansion hits with multiple classes, they can readily maintain this balance. It is already highly expected that we'll be getting a tank and a healer job. If there's a 3rd job, that would be the next DPS, which would make the balance 3-2-2.

A difference of one isn't bad. It's what we have now with 2-2-1. It's almost necessary, like how you build houses in Monopoly. However a situation with 3-2-1 (what we would have if they made NIN a STR-based job) would be considerably unbalanced.

[Velhart]

snip

Sounds like a personal issue. Its your choice to bring that many melee into a fight. Standard setups usually include two melee and two ranged DPS. Plenty of MMO's have classes set up where people not their exact job need the same gear also, and no balance has been broken on that end. FFXIV is eventually going to get to the point that its going to have lots of classes and jobs in the future for all roles and its still going to be treated exactly the same as it is now in terms of loot distribution. You can argue about Ninja and DEX, but your reasoning with this is not a valid claim.

[NoctisUmbra]

Sounds like a personal issue. Its your choice to bring that many melee into a fight. Standard setups usually include two melee and two ranged DPS. Plenty of MMO's have classes set up where people not their exact job need the same gear also, and no balance has been broken on that end. FFXIV is eventually going to get to the point that its going to have lots of classes and jobs in the future for all roles and its still going to be treated exactly the same as it is now in terms of loot distribution. You can argue about Ninja and DEX, but your reasoning with this is not a valid claim.

Uhm, no... it's the exact opposite of a personal issue. It's basic balance. Basic math. Four DPS slots in an average 8 man party. Half the DPS jobs lot on 1 type of accessory. Basic probability; especially as far as DF is concerned which is what a majority of the playerbase uses.

As for endgame, which is far from being the only thing to consider for itemization balance of this kind, there is no "standard setup". Competent endgame raid parties adjust party DPS makeup to better suit the instance in question. What is really effective for one instance isn't necessarily that effective for another. However, I suppose there will always be parties that don't care to optimize too much, and just bring what they have or try to strike a "balance" with 2 melee and 2 ranged. Hmm, I wonder why they consider 2 melee and 2 ranged a balanced, standard setup? lol

I mentioned no personal situation, circumstance or experience. Suggesting it is a personal issue is evading the actual claim I have, which is in fact valid. I'm all for having a discussion, but baseless dismissal of my arguments just won't do.

[MythToken]

Have you considered that they will make NIN, STR and DEX based? SE has stated they have the ability to do so.

[Velhart]

Uhm, no... it's the exact opposite of a personal issue. It's basic balance. Basic math. Four DPS slots in an average 8 man party. Half the DPS jobs lot on 1 type of accessory. Basic probability; especially as far as DF is concerned which is what a majority of the playerbase uses.

DF can also put 4 BRD's in one party. Ask me how my last ST went when I decided to go BRD.

As for endgame, which is far from being the only thing to consider for itemization balance of this kind, there is no "standard setup". Competent endgame raid parties adjust party DPS makeup to better suit the instance in question. What is really effective for one instance isn't necessarily that effective for another. However, I suppose there will always be parties that don't care to optimize too much, and just bring what they have or try to strike a "balance" with 2 melee and 2 ranged. Hmm, I wonder why they consider 2 melee and 2 ranged a balanced, standard setup? lol

Sure, but at the end of the day, people are still lotting on items for their main job, which ultimately brings loot distribution back to the personal preference the raid group. If you decide to have four people be allowed to lot on the melee accessories, that is up to you and your group.

So if you decide to have 2 MNK and 2 NIN in your group, then be prepared for four players to fight over stuff. It doesn't matter at the end of the day on normal circumstances.

Have you considered that they will make NIN, STR and DEX based? SE has stated they have the ability to do so.

I won't dismiss your idea, but why would they have two stat weights for damage purposes? Would have to be STR enhances one aspect, and DEX on another aspect. Not saying it isn't possible, but seems more complex than it needs to be. My guess is Ninja either goes in the Striking gear along with MNK, or they may get their own gear all together.

I am for now staying under the assumption that SE is sticking to their descriptions that you see highlighting over the stat in game that STR enhances melee attack and DEX enhances ranged attack.

[NoctisUmbra]

DF can also put 4 BRD's in one party. Ask me how my last ST went when I decided to go BRD.

Yeah. like I said, probability. Luck of the draw. You under stand though, that getting 3 other BRDs in your party is a very rare scenario and it sucks for you then. If any of them were any other job, it would already be better.

For melee, the other slots can be filled by any one of 3 jobs and be equally bad in terms of accessories. This is far more likely than getting 3 others of the same job.

It really isn't difficult to understand if you have a basic grasp on probability.

I mean, if it turns out that NIN is a str job and shares gear with MNK like so many people expect, as a MNK main planning to switch to a NIN main that would benefit me a great deal. However, I still feel that DEX would be a better choice for NIN in the long run for this game. Certainly the more interesting choice.

[Velhart]

I mean, if it turns out that NIN is a str job and shares gear with MNK like so many people expect, as a MNK main planning to switch to a NIN main that would benefit me a great deal. However, I still feel that DEX would be a better choice for NIN in the long run for this game. Certainly the more interesting choice.

The stat that increases your ranged attack for melee weapons. You are right, that would be quite interesting.

[NoctisUmbra]

The stat that increases your ranged attack for melee weapons. You are right, that would be quite interesting.

Except... it doesnt do that? Not since beta. Ranged attacks on melee jobs were switched to be STR based a long time ago. They simplified the formulas so that STR and DEX function identically as far as damage formulas go - just that DEX is used instead of STR for BRD. This further suggests that the tooltip for DEX is outdated. Wouldn't be the first time they used outdated, incorrect tooltips.

Piercing Talon, Tomahawk, Shield Lob all use STR.