Ninja: Walk in shadow.

[Ejell]

Though it would be nice for drg sub ( unlikely) for access to Bob and invigorate. With those low to costs it probably won't need invigorate as much.

One of the datamined passive is increased TP regeneration, so it should be able to be independant of invegorate.

[Sigmakan]

Enjoying the discussion, lets keep it going! Heres a question:

How potent will these mudra be?
I think we'll be underwhelmed with the potency of the mudra. Its a move you can do every 20seconds, off GCD. Its basically free damage every 20secs that you can do over your class-role. A similar situation is DRG being able to do jump every 40secs, and thats a potency of 200. One could almost expect then mudra to only have a potency of 100, but I think it'll be higher like 150.

However, there could be a mechanic/toggle that applies poison to your blades and disables mudra. The poison could be a 30% dmg boost. This would allow the mudra to be more potent while remaining some sort of balance with class damage. In this scenario we could see mudras being 500-600 potency. I actually think this is the route they will go. They've mentioned that rogues will use poisons, and if it was a toggle then it would allow the job-class to be more balanced.

[NoctisUmbra]

Enjoying the discussion, lets keep it going! Heres a question:

How potent will these mudra be?
I think we'll be underwhelmed with the potency of the mudra. Its a move you can do every 20seconds, off GCD. Its basically free damage every 20secs that you can do over your class-role. A similar situation is DRG being able to do jump every 40secs, and thats a potency of 200. One could almost expect then mudra to only have a potency of 100, but I think it'll be higher like 150.

However, there could be a mechanic/toggle that applies poison to your blades and disables mudra. The poison could be a 30% dmg boost. This would allow the mudra to be more potent while remaining some sort of balance with class damage. In this scenario we could see mudras being 500-600 potency. I actually think this is the route they will go. They've mentioned that rogues will use poisons, and if it was a toggle then it would allow the job-class to be more balanced.

Yoshi P did say in an interview that the majority of Ninja's DPS will come from the base Rogue skills, and that ninjtsu will be better served by using the right jutsu at the right time, etc.

An example of this seems to be apparent in the Aniversary video where the Ninja casts the water jutsu and on top of the damage it likely does to the target, it also applies a 5s buff with a sword icon. While this buff is active, 2 off-GCD skills on the hotbar become activated (they were greyed out otherwise) and then the player uses one of them, and it immediately removes the sword buff.

There were also a couple or so skills that went unused for the entire duration, one of which is likely to be the application of poison to the blades that the animation was shown for in the reveal video.

[Sigmakan]

Good to know about Yoshi's comments. Every third mudra should be on that gives that buff thats used for one of those two moves. It'll be interesting to see all the other mudras. Will everything else be fillers? Or will we see some unique effects like ice resistence down, etc etc.

Also, I tried breaking down all the videos best I could and posted the move set in this spreadsheet. Theres a fair amount of speculation, but thats the fun of it! Feel free to contribute comments and corrections.
Ninja Speculation Doc

[RobbieH]

Ninja Speculation Doc

"Subjobs likely PGL and ARC."

Pugilist and Archer?

Seriously?

Aren't you (or whoever wrote that) forgetting something? I mean, Rogue it's the base class, can't be Pugilist and Archer = Ninja

[NoctisUmbra]

"Subjobs likely PGL and ARC."

Pugilist and Archer?

Seriously?

Aren't you (or whoever wrote that) forgetting something? I mean, Rogue it's the base class, can't be Pugilist and Archer = Ninja

Rogue + either PGL or ARC to unlock.
However all jobs can pull sub skills for 1 more class. So when they say likely subclasses, they are referring to the 2 classes the NIN job will be able to gain cross class skills from.

[RobbieH]

Rogue + either PGL or ARC to unlock.
However all jobs can pull sub skills for 1 more class. So when they say likely subclasses, they are referring to the 2 classes the NIN job will be able to gain cross class skills from.

I see, i thought they mentioned the Classes needed to unlock, makes sense now, sorry ^^'

[JakzChurchill]

At lot of talk now has been about stat balance; but I honestly hope they don't go this route, as soon as jobs implementation becomes dependant on balancing stats the devs then lose all creative freedom. It no longer becomes about what jobs would work well here (ala Ninja being the stealth class) to what jobs do we need to balance out the stats.

Having the devs limit themselves in this fashion will be detrimental to all future job releases, and I would hate for the devs to say, we have ideas for 2 cool tanks, and evasion tank and a mage tank, both using VIT, but if we implement them both we create an imbalance so only one can be used.

If a job works well for the game it should be implemented, whether the stats are balanced should never be a thought when it comes to adding jobs.

[NoctisUmbra]

At lot of talk now has been about stat balance; but I honestly hope they don't go this route, as soon as jobs implementation becomes dependant on balancing stats the devs then lose all creative freedom. It no longer becomes about what jobs would work well here (ala Ninja being the stealth class) to what jobs do we need to balance out the stats.

Having the devs limit themselves in this fashion will be detrimental to all future job releases, and I would hate for the devs to say, we have ideas for 2 cool tanks, and evasion tank and a mage tank, both using VIT, but if we implement them both we create an imbalance so only one can be used.

If a job works well for the game it should be implemented, whether the stats are balanced should never be a thought when it comes to adding jobs.

The stat balancing is pretty much a DPS exclusive thing. VIT will be the primary stat for Tanks and MND the primary stat for healers all the way through. Can there be exceptions born from creative new designs? Perhaps. In general though, that's going to be the case and that's fine as long as there aren't multiple tanking stats in the game like there are DPS stats.

Also, if you think stat balance should never be a thought when implementing new jobs, you're highly mistaken lol.

[JakzChurchill]

No it isn't your exact reasoning for balancing stats is too make it fair for accessories working with an even amount of classes. So if one VIT accessory works across 4 classes, against DEX on two classes the same issue would come up that tanking accessories have more use than DEX accessories.

I bet you wouldn't have the same opinion if we had a higher threshold of jobs, lets say 6 new dps were added, 3 STR, 2 DEX, 1 INT, giving us 3 DEX 5 STR 3 INT. The difference now almost seems minute, and eventually this is how the game will go. It will eventually build up to the point where one accessory will work across so many jobs you won't even notice that one has more usefulness than the other.

I would accept if making Ninja DEX had a purpose, if dex did something like raise crit rate, speed or accuracy; but it never will, the secondary stats have already made that a fact, so making a melee class that is already set into an established category, become part of another just for gears sake is a dumb reason. For a change to be made it has to hold serious value, which in this case it does not.