SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Sebazy]

SMN's rotation is simple as well especially when you have "fester" that states it does more damage with more dots. So your rotation becomes dot management. As for pets, I mean come on it's obvious that Garuda offers support and with the range attack it doesn't need to move.

Which tooltip notes that Miasma II is a DPS loss on a single target, unless you are about to contagion in which case it's a gain?

I'm also not sure which tooltip explains that Shadowflare is also a DPS loss on a single target unless you have swift cast going spare, again, more DPS.

I'm also confused as to what in game help or description covers the merits of burning rouse/spur on cooldown as opposed to saving them for pet cooldowns.

The game also makes zero mention of Ruin II's merits and when it's worth using over ruin 1 despite the high MP cost.

Lets be honest now, the game doesn't even explain that Summoners shouldn't really have Titan out in dungeons, let alone any of the little DPS details that make such a big difference. A SMN that doesn't know these details and more will not be able to make progress in Savage Coil (Or much of regular coil2 frankly). The only way to know these details is via direct or indirect parsing.

Yet people that use parsers for damage never set an avg threshold that's okay to go by instead all they look at is their Max DPS value and complain when someone's not up to their max dps standard.

There you go with those sweeping generalisations again!

In which we have this addict level of "I can't live without it" that has produced such a state of mind in these people that you can no longer reason with. Since you constantly see them constantly drag it back to the same vicious cycle that consist of insults and belittlement.

Please quote any example of me using insults and belittlement to further my side of this debate.

I'll be waiting.

Ps still waiting <3

[Exstal]

third-party tools that modify or parse game data

The rest of your post was irrelevant.

Parsing can be done by hand.
Parsing is *not* cheating.

There really isn't any counter argument to this.

The only argument you have is that, "using third party tools is cheating". That would be correct. There is no refutation of that. But since you're saying "parsing is cheating", you're dead wrong and it's rather impressive that you've either brilliantly ignored it or simply chose not to understand this simple fact.

[kidvideo]

The only way to know these details is via direct or indirect parsing.

You learn a Summoner's abilities by playing the job, not by parsing. You learn about your abilities by reading the description, not by parsing.

Ruin II, among other abilities, can be used while your dodging because of instant cast, Ruin I for MP conservation.

Titan can be used in a dungeon, under the right circumstances & with the proper control.

This knowledge comes from experience, not parsing.

[Mcshiggs]

The only argument you have is that, "using third party tools is cheating". That would be correct. There is no refutation of that. But since you're saying "parsing is cheating", you're dead wrong and it's rather impressive that you've either brilliantly ignored it or simply chose not to understand this simple fact.

Since everything I have posted has been about the use of third party programs, and that fact is what makes them cheating you can use context clues that I was never talking about pen and paper parsing. This entire thread was about SE stating that using parsers was against the User Agreement, again nothing about pen and paper parsing, the only reason pen and paper parsing was brought up was someone said that parsers were ok because they didn't allow you to do something you couldn't do already, but the link in the original post says specifically parsers are a violation. I'm not sure if I ever said outright "parsing is cheating," like you claim I have, I know you might be able to cherry pick something out of a post, but they are all about third party tools, I have said many many times that the fact that third party tools is what makes them cheating, so if you are using those to parse, then yes you are cheating. If you want to say it's not cheating by definition because they don't provide an advantage you couldn't come to yourself, then why use them, because you gain the advantage of time saved and not having to do the work yourself, still an advantage, so still cheating if you use the programs to do it.

[Sebazy]

You learn a Summoner's abilities by playing the job, not by parsing. You learn about your abilities by reading the description, not by parsing.

If dot damage could be accurately timestamped and sent to the chat log I'd agree. BLMs can get a feel for how they are doing simply by activity time and raw big number hits, MNKs will quickly learn that a boss fight boils down to keeping those greased lightning stacks going. SMNs don't have that luxury as simply keeping the core 3 dots on and festering is barely half the story. They have no easily digestible feedback from the game as to how they are doing. For the most part, all they get is a bunch of small numbers flying around the boss getting obscured in the spam.

Ruin II also weaves in well with off GCD abilities and pet commands. There is nothing in the game that highlights this.

Don't get me wrong, Mnks and BLMs benefit more from optimising positioning through studying replays rather than parsing different openers and 'rotations'. I'm singling out SMN because the game does such a horrible job of providing feedback for dots, it's a particularly extreme example and I do appreciate that it's not the norm for the game as a whole. /TLDR = The game does not provide sufficient feedback for SMN dps. Perhaps that's a topic for another thread

[TheMax1087]

Something I just noticed. The wording of the statement this entire topic is based on

We would also like to remind players that third-party tools that modify or parse game data violate the User Agreement

actually makes the entire point of the topic moot, because as far as i know, both of the more popular third party tools used to parse can parse without any game data at all(unless someone really wants to argue that a copy of a log file is game data, something they'd be wrong about of course). I honestly wouldn't be surprised given yoshi p's previous statements on the matter that it was written that way intentionally

[Dwill]

Snip

After the opening rotation and once mechanics kicks in, there is no fixed rotation anymore. It all becomes a priority system.

This as been stated multiple times but it doesn't come as a surprise considering your knack for ignoring everything that contradicts you or proves you wrong.

You learn a Summoner's abilities by playing the job, not by parsing. You learn about your abilities by reading the description, not by parsing.

Ruin II, among other abilities, can be used while your dodging because of instant cast, Ruin I for MP conservation.

Titan can be used in a dungeon, under the right circumstances & with the proper control.

This knowledge comes from experience, not parsing.

Being able to read a tooltip is not experience. Titan being able to tank when you support him is not knowledge, that's what tank pet and classes do.

Actual knowledge requires you to test multiple rotations, math out the maximal potency out of each of them, look at what is and what isn't on the GCD to weave skills in, knowing if certain situations warrant clipping DoTs, knowing when Shadowflare becomes a single target buff in correlation to its cast time and the certainty that the boss will not move for said amount of time. It's knowing how to micro manage your pet without taking a hit to your damage. Actual knowledge comes testing your job, from wanting to min-max it, learning as much as you can out of it, to push it to its limit and with that knowledge, put it into experience to try to become even better. Then you can say you know you really know your job. And with the tool available in the game, it's not just not feasible to do all of this. After all, how do you think accuracy caps were figured out ?

Reading a tooltip is not experience nor is it knowledge. You can say that you don't need a parser to learn the basics and that's true. But don't come and say just reading the tooltips will make you the best at your job. You always need a way to validate your data and inputs and the game by itself does not allows us to do that. So there is no way that you can come here and say you're just as good as everybody else based on what you see in game, it's just not true.

By the way, it's kind of ironic to see you talking about optimizing your job and knowing how to play yet you do not even have Swiftcast as a Summoner.

[kidvideo]

But don't come and say just reading the tooltips will make you the best at your job.

Didn't say anything about "tooltips". But keep reading & don't make up things that weren't said. "This knowledge comes from experience, not parsing."

But I do apologize for assuming comprehension followed reading an abilities description. Such as, an instant cast means you can move while casting & not reduce your dps. Nothing explain that to me, it just seemed obvious. Nothing explained that you use shadowflare when mobs are stationary... that just seemed obvious. The ability descriptions with cast time & duration, & affects based on other abilities, basically explain the optimal rotation for single & multiple targets. That's the "experience" part of the sentence you missed.

A parser was unnecessary.

[Exstal]

If you want to say it's not cheating by definition because they don't provide an advantage you couldn't come to yourself, then why use them, because you gain the advantage of time saved and not having to do the work yourself, still an advantage, so still cheating if you use the programs to do it.

As such, you've been arguing semantics for the past 12 pages with the other people. Parsing as a blanket statement, going through data and looking at damage and checking, is not cheating. Using a third-party program to do so, is. However, the community usually couldn't care less about that because the benefit of it (the parser) is high and fight club rules pretty much protect you from being banned.

[Dwill]

Didn't say anything about "tooltips". But keep reading & don't make up things that weren't said. "This knowledge comes from experience, not parsing."

Oh:

You learn a Summoner's abilities by playing the job, not by parsing. You learn about your abilities by reading the description, not by parsing.

I wonder, hows does one read a description and not read the tooltip ?