SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Assirra]

Oh! I see ... so from all the way up in your "Elite Competitive Guild-Raiding" pedestal dont see the putrid bile this proven unnecessary tool brings to everyone else who regularly runs pugs. And all because you want to make sure that spec, gear, and rotation you picked up from that website is actually doing the DPS it said it would. Funny how IM the one who "doesnt know what im talking about" yet youre the ones ignoring anything else as if its a non-issue (to you maybe).

Youre not the only one whose played end game content with and without parsers, theyre used to gloat, and theyre used to bully people... and the rare opportunities either of you allegedly have had with your collective group of friends to defeat a handful of bosses is FAR from worth the headaches it brings with it for everyone else whose not running raids with friends. Be honest already, youre not asking for parsers on practice dummies, or parsers who display only your own information only... youre more interested in everyone elses information than your own. You dont want to help anyone, you want to police everyone else, plain and simple.

Its not needed to beat the content, this isnt the first game to not allow its use, and every single one has had guilds of all skill levels beat its content. No wgo ahead and tell me how im obviously one of those "scrubs" who wants to be "carried" ... thats what you all like to say right? "We need to have this because all the "lazy people" want to take your loots" ... you sound like politicians.

I am once again demanding proof for this "gloating, bullying" you people seem to be so fond off.
I have done years in mmo's with parsers/dps meters/whatever you call it and seen it rarely happen.

[Sebazy]

You suspected wrong and I'm not gonna bother naming every little god damn thing that's happened in pugs where people use parsers but are misinformed because they weren't paying attention to the fight itself to realize what really went wrong.

I hope you were at least a little proactive and reported these people? Don't get me wrong, whilst it could be said that I'm in the pro parser camp, I'm firmly against mindlessly bashing people with raw numbers. That only serves to breed the level of resent demonstrated in this thread. Try to remember you will never see the 'good' side of parsing in pugs because those people will generally keep quiet about it (as they should imo). Perhaps consider having a little more faith in your fellow human? Not all of us are a-hats you know

I am once again demanding proof for this "gloating, bullying" you people seem to be so fond off.
I have done years in mmo's with parsers/dps meters/whatever you call it and seen it rarely happen.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this, perhaps I'm skewed by being a career healer, but I've been playing MMOs at the end game for the best part of 15 years (You'll find me as a contributor on the old Everquest slowing charts for example) and can think of very few occasions where people have openly bashed others over parser numbers. Even in WoW it seemed pretty rare to me, and I can promise you, I did plenty of pugging as I seem to find it strangely enjoyable!

[Kaethra]

The log doesn't include all the information needed for all classes (can be used for some). Also the popular parser, because it does what it needs to do to get that extra information, reads from memory, which is against the ToS - which is also why that popular app can also make a radar.. because it reads from memory.

No the log files don't normally. And they didn't in both EQ games either, but its what we used to get an 'idea'. That's sort of the point of parsing, to get an idea of what you are doing. Then you can improve on it and then see if what you did differently actually improved it. If you read my post where I posted my simple notepad manual parse of the damage done during a few seconds of fighting in Haukke Manor, you will notice a monster cast Stone, but you saw it do no damage. This is because it was out of range for the log file to track.

That happened in both EQ's the parser wouldn't be able to accurately track party members without some settings changed and everyone being closer together. I'd imagine the same thing works here. Of course this is assuming a parser isn't doing those 'other' things as I've said. And that's been the point of my argument in this thread. Not every parser is covered under the TOS ban. The parser for EQ2 that I mentioned actually has a plugin for FFXIV (just looked it up as of writing this). It ONLY parses log files and doesn't check memory or data streams. Which means it can parse when you're not even in game.

So the parsers I'm speaking about do not do those nefarious things that other's have been referencing.

Youre not the only one whose played end game content with and without parsers, theyre used to gloat, and theyre used to bully people... and the rare opportunities either of you allegedly have had with your collective group of friends to defeat a handful of bosses is FAR from worth the headaches it brings with it for everyone else whose not running raids with friends.

To be honest, your post is alot more abusive than any post or response from someone using a parser that I've seen in the 15 years I've been playing MMOs. How about you settle down and let friends within their circles play the game the way they want to? They aren't in your raids, your groups, or in your FC. They aren't hurting you. Live and let live. Parsers didn't suddenly make people be mean to you, they were that way long before there were parsers.

[Dwill]

If you need parsers to know a rotation then I really feel sorry for you.

Once the mechanics in an encounter starts, a rotation takes the garbage can and everything becomes a priority system. If you don't even know as much, your input about the uses of a parser are irrelevant.

level from 1-50 and learn nothing. You sure told me about scientist and facts.

Because leveling content can totally be compared with actual challenging content.

Sorry but when I was in WoW most world first "boss" clears are not based on using meters but communication between progression guilds during downtime unless they actually communicated between fights. "Pro-tip that is happening in the current end game scene of FFXIV."

You've totally just proven you have not a clue what you're talking about. World first guild in WoW will not communicate with other guilds for progression since all of them want to be number one. Heck, a some of them strips their character naked and change their talents before logging off to make sure their competition don't see what they use. They are also using meters from which they keep the log privates while also recording encounters to make sure they can watch them later and see what they can improve.

[CeeTwo]

People are capable of being selective and rude with or without parsers.

People who don't like parsers are just bad players that don't want others to be shown factual data proving they're bad... Go ahead and toss excuses at this statement, it's the truth and you know it hahaha.

[Gormogon]

I hope you were at least a little proactive and reported these people?

There's nothing proactive about reporting those players since I was never the one being criticized those that were are the ones that need to do the reporting and as far these threads go they aren't a threat to me so what is there for me to report.

All I see is people trying to justify a tool which it's only purpose is QoL but can't admit to the sheer reason why they truly depend on it and because of that shady behavior they can't be taken seriously.

Because leveling content can totally be compared

If you're not taking your leveling seriously enough to even use a rotation then you only set yourself up for a struggling chore at end game when organizing your bar ends up a chore.

Yet if that's the type of player you enjoy being so be it. Once rogue/ninja is release I wonder how many players are gonna struggle at level 50 trying to figure out a rotation that they could've figured out through leveling.

you have not a clue

I was part of that kind of end-game scene so jokes on you.

[Sebazy]

Sorry but when I was in WoW most world first "boss" clears are not based on using meters but communication between progression guilds during downtime unless they actually communicated between fights. "Pro-tip that is happening in the current end game scene of FFXIV."

Any DPSer in WoW going for a world first will have spent time on dummies and other encounters analysing and optimising themselves with a parser. I would mention world of raids but given your disdain for parsers, I can only tremble at your likely opinion of that would be

Yet you don't have to take my word for it and can believe on the parser data. All it ever did in WoW just simply gather pointless dps information that can be gotten even without it's presence. People that record fights would even spot the, exact why, faster than those bothering with crunching a log.

Recording and replaying footage from attempts is just a different way of achieving the same thing and frankly, the two compliment each other brilliantly. The first thing my FC did when learning new turns was to take the best recording from the group (We would have 2 or 3 people recording/streaming at the very least) and promptly break down that footage into a digestible timeline to give ourselves a better idea of what we were up against.

Ps "Casual-tip a good debate doesn't have to be so hostile."

[Delorean]

Youre not the only one whose played end game content with and without parsers, theyre used to gloat, and theyre used to bully people...

They're also used by raid leaders to diagnose a problem.

youre more interested in everyone elses information than your own. You dont want to help anyone, you want to police everyone else, plain and simple.

You know what I loved about the first week of my job training? Watching everyone else do work because I didn't know the ropes yet. You know what I do now? I take intiative and jump in and try to help wherever I can see I'm needed to get a job done faster.

When someone asks for your help to do something, you will be expected to contribute.

And don't say "it's just a game". Basketball is "just a game", and players who want to win are going to try to choose players that they feel give them the best chance of winning.

Sorry but when I was in WoW most world first "boss" clears are not based on using meters but communication between progression guilds during downtime unless they actually communicated between fights. "Pro-tip that is happening in the current end game scene of FFXIV."

Your world firsts. Let me see them.

All zero of them.

Logging is a tool that is used by every guild in World of Warcraft that is serious about progression whether they did it months ago or are doing it now. Many run live logging sessions.

Midwinter, Duality, Vigil, Huge in Japan, OBSCURE REFERENCE and Pure are all top 100 guilds in World of Warcraft with players that I know personally that examine logs, so I don't know what you're talking about.

[Sebazy]

All I see is people trying to justify a tool which it's only purpose is QoL but can't admit to the sheer reason why they truly depend on it and because of that shady behavior they can't be taken seriously.

Again, you are underestimating how highly tuned Savage coil is and just how steep it's dps/healing requirements are. You might not like it, but the very top end of this games content is tuned in precisely the same manner as WoW, it is designed for people that are min maxing to the last percent and to do so to that degree currently requires the use of a parser. You think the top tier of content is designed and tested to be accessible to all and everyone? Take note of how long it took for the PS3 Turn 5 first dive marker bug to get fixed.

[Ryel]

The irony in this thread.

I'm seeing more players out of the anti-parser pool responding with condescension, hostility, and out right abusive remarks in most of their posts in comparison to the many pro-parsing players who have calmly outlined very valid reasoning and offered scenarios to which you can see the benefits.

while i don't promote or discourage the use of parsers I'm starting to wonder if the issues many of these players are having is how they personally perceive constructive criticism as opposed to an overly hostile environment.

While i won't deny there are plenty of players that will use these features to harass and belittle other players it's more often the case that most of those players would simply find another reason or already doing so anyway.