SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Gormogon]

I still stand by my verdict that SMN is nigh impossible to truly optimise without a parser, contagion vs ifrit's extra damage, is shadow flare useful? Should I ever bother with Miasma II? Due to how dot damage is displayed in such an overly simplistic manner in game, it is only possible to find out these kind of answers through the direct or indirect use of parsers. In short, not all rotations are self explanatory.

So you're saying that when it comes to SMN you're part of the, "it's new to me" crowd? Which doesn't surprise me.

Half of the things you question is something you see and notice leveling and if you didn't that's pretty hilarious to me. I can go on but there's no point since I already explained why you're trying to make this a thing.

And just to reiterate, sorry but you are wrong, there's just no way to sugar coat it. Savage coil isn't possible without the use of a parser to get everyone to the performance level the content requires. The vast majority of T9 clears will have either run a parser themselves or used strategies that were devised off the back of parser data even if they don't quite know it.

This is the saddest thing about parser enthusiasts you neglect something so simple just to make it sound like it's some massive complicated system that can't be figured out without help. Fights are mechanic oriented which is the reason why all guides revolve around explaining abilities and rotations over YOU NEED 400 DPS ON EVERY BODY AND 350 HEALS PER HEALER.

And I think you are overblowing the risks of that actually happening, it's been demonstrated repeatedly that SE take inter player abuse very seriously, far more so than is usually the case in an mmo. As long as that continued to be the case then you need not worry. I'd be more concerned about the inevitable rise of the '400DEEPS OR KICK - Garuda EX' party finders myself

Sorry but the end game environment has changed a lot since 2.0 and the offenders are end game difficult increases mixed with the type of environment parsers create. I've put up with it so much that it has gotten to the point that I'm willing to avoid end game raiding because of it now. I tolerated that bs for well near a decade and it has never changed and all meter enthusiasts don't ever bother to make the end game environment any better.

Not a main point but just a funny side note to a decent point on why a parser is useful (hard hard content). Perhaps the parser is ruining the difficulty curve SE uses

That's the kind of mentality that really irks me.

Those players downing savage coil are actually putting effort. If you actually take the time to realize that they put in hours upon hours every day doing savage coil. They put that time checking and testing mechanics that need to be tackled. It's the reason why it's possible to be downed.

We weren't told what kind of gear the dev team used, the type of raiding hours they put in, and so on.

Yet you go and overshadow all that hard work people doing savage coil by mentioning "parsers". It's pretty sad from my pov that you would do that.

[Shougun]

That's the kind of mentality that really irks me.

Those players downing savage coil are actually putting effort. If you actually take the time to realize that they put in hours upon hours every day doing savage coil. They put that time checking and testing mechanics that need to be tackled. It's the reason why it's possible to be downed.

We weren't told what kind of gear the dev team used, the type of raiding hours they put in, and so on.

Yet you go and overshadow all that hard work people doing savage coil by mentioning "parsers". It's pretty sad from my pov that you would do that.

Hmmm? I'm confused on how I overshadowed their work. I merely used the pro of using parser as a con for non-parsing players. If you are playing better Yoshida and team will need to make content harder in order for it to be hard- I did not say its easy, or easy mode or anything of the like. Players playing better, requires harder content to be challenging, at no point did I undermine someone's work (or at least attempted to.. lol).

I was just tossing the idea that parsers create a game that needs parsers, as once the players master what would normally be unbeknownst to them then the devs need to design with this in mind- or content won't be hard enough. As this own thread touts, parsers can help you and your team play better- which then follows that devs would need to balance it from there.

[Gormogon]

The game doesn't inherently give you any way of telling how much damage your DoT effects do.

Gee a 35 damage tick on a 20 second timer going off ever 4 seconds. So hard to calculate.

Hmmm? I'm confused on how I overshadowed their work.

Never downed a raid boss pre guides have you?

[Appleh4x]

Gee a 35 damage tick on a 20 second timer going off ever 4 seconds. So hard to calculate.



Never downed a raid boss pre guides have you?

You just proved how bad of tools we have for finding DoT damage are available natively with this post. It would be 35 potency not damage. The damage is a formula based off potency, weapon damage, determination, crit chance, damage modifer buffs (raging strikes) etc. the game also doesn't even tell you how often the DoTs proc for that potency in the tooltip. You are way out of your element in this discussion, stick to running roulettes and please ignore the endgame world because your input is just making you seem really uneducated about this matter. They proc every 3 seconds btw, not 4

[Gormogon]

You just proved how bad of tools we have for finding DoT damage are available natively with this post.

It's an example and you let it go way over your head just so you can prove your "I need my parsers" fiasco. I know how much my thunder does without the need of parsers. It's a shame you are that dependent of a parser to figure it out. If you hate math then say so in which just go fight a level 49 mob and toss a tick on it and kite it around see how much it does. You can also throw up more two dots and see how it goes and so on.

That laziness and dependency is what causes end game environments to go down the drain.

[Appleh4x]

It's an example and you let it go way over your head just so you can prove your "I need my parsers" fiasco. I know how much my thunder does without the need of parsers. It's a shame you are that dependent of a parser to figure it out. If you hate math then say so in which just go fight a level 49 mob and toss a tick on it and kite it around see how much it does. You can also throw up more two dots and see how it goes and so on.

That laziness and dependency is what causes end game environments to go down the drain.

You are without a doubt the least informed person I have ever talked to on any forum, ever. I actually use the parser because I love the math. The example you gave of tracking damage by throwing a dot on a level 49 is so unbelievably stupid on so many levels.

Through the course of a fight there are dozens of factors that affect the damage your dots do. Self buffs, enemy debuffs, stat potions, foe requiem, clipping your dots for whatever reason, whether the DoT initial hit even lands 100% of the time or not, how it affects your tp/mp management, etc. Just throwing a DoT on a mob and looking for the float damage that isn't shown in the log to pop up and then writing all that down and adding it up is a horrible way to try and find out how much DoT damage you're doing through the course of a fight.

[Tiggy]

You are without a doubt the least informed person I have ever talked to on any forum, ever. I actually use the parser because I love the math. The example you gave of tracking damage by throwing a dot on a level 49 is so unbelievably stupid on so many levels.

He ALWAYS trolls these topics. He doesn't do end game and he thinks he understands every single aspect of the game and that we simply don't get it. The worst part is when you prove him wrong he always twists it like "you guys just don't understand what I'm saying." He's frustrating beyond belief and you will never get through to him.

Don't feed the troll. Just ignore him.

If someone had to meet an arbitrary level of 3 work points to make it feel really hard, and then suddenly they start to play better- it would make sense SE would have to set the bar to 4. In this case the player is still working hard, but the content is harder for those who didn't parse. The point isn't to say parsers are lazy or something weird, just that parsing creates the need for parsing and that has repercussions to other players.

I can completely agree with this. Parsers create a system where the limit is known and therefore the limits must constantly be pushed harder and harder creating a feedback loop. The problem is Pandora's box has already been opened with third party apps, and the only hope we have of equalizing the playing field is to have some type of in game system.

[Shougun]

Never downed a raid boss pre guides have you?

This still has nothing to do with what I said though... I said parsers make your dps / healing / tanking more optimal, and as a team - this means you play better which leads to SE having to set a higher bar for players or suffer the possibility of making content too easy.

Has little to do with pre-guides, or saying players didn't work hard.


If someone had to meet an arbitrary level of 3 work points to make it feel really hard, and then suddenly they start to play better- it would make sense SE would have to set the bar to 4. In this case the player is still working hard, but the content is harder for those who didn't parse. The point isn't to say parsers are lazy or something weird, just that parsing creates the need for parsing and that has repercussions to other players.

To further that last sentence, I'm not sure SE can stop the "knowing" of classes over time but it does effect SE's expectation.. the solution to this situation? Not sure, just saying it does have consequences. I'd prefer they toss a parser in the game, strictly ban third party apps and up their detection abilities. If someone starts to harass you over the parser thats ok because harassment is a GM-able offence lol.

[Appleh4x]

This still has nothing to do with what I said though... I said parsers make your dps / healing / tanking more optimal, and as a team - this means you play better which leads to SE having to set a higher bar for players or suffer the possibility of making content too easy.

Has little to do with pre-guides, or saying players didn't work hard.


If someone had to meet an arbitrary level of 3 work points to make it feel really hard, and then suddenly they start to play better- it would make sense SE would have to set the bar to 4. In this case the player is still working hard, but the content is harder for those who didn't parse. The point isn't to say parsers are lazy or something weird, just that parsing creates the need for parsing and that has repercussions to other players.

To further that last sentence, I'm not sure SE can stop the "knowing" of classes over time but it does effect SE's expectation.. the solution to this situation? Not sure, just saying it does have consequences. I'd prefer they toss a parser in the game, strictly ban third party apps and up their detection abilities. If someone starts to harass you over the parser thats ok because harassment is a GM-able offence lol.

I agree about needing an in gamer parse we can see (they have it for PvP, why not PvE?) I would quit playing the game though if it started scanning my pc or local memory a la Blizzard. I'm not a big fan of Big Brother.

[Shougun]

I agree about needing an in gamer parse we can see (they have it for PvP, why not PvE?) I would quit playing the game though if it started scanning my pc or local memory a la Blizzard. I'm not a big fan of Big Brother.

I respect the desire for privacy, but I hope they then plan to either have this forever be an issue or to add proper addon support (to give fair avenue). I guess I wouldn't mind but then I have had WoW and Steam on my computer so.. too late for me ! lol