SMN BIS 2.3

[pacifist0rz]

Note that for this post I will be using the coefficients from http://ffxiv.ariyala.com (even though my testing has shown that crit should be weighted higher than this)
WP = 6.57
Int = 1
Crit = 0.211
Det = 0.283
SS = 0.094

Judgment ring of casting should be better than High Allagan Ring, Has 17 crit and 9 det
http://xivdb.com/?item/8354/Judgment-Ring-of-Casting
As long as you meet the acc req in coil.

This statement is totally correct.

2 int + 13 spell SS from HA = 3.2
17 crit + 9 det from Judgement ring = 6.1 (+2.9)

However now we need to focus on that last sentence "As long as you meet the acc req in coil." Any BIS build will be hovering right around the Acc cap, so we still need to figure out a way to make up the lost Acc from the HA ring.
Lets look at some possibilities...

Earrings (swap HA with Sold):
HA = 19 crit + 9 det = 6.6
Sold = 13 det = 3.7 (-2.9)

Boots (swap Sold with HA):
Sold = 25 crit + 18 SS = 7.0
HA = 18 crit = 3.8 (-3.2)

Wrist (swap Sold with HA):
Sold = 13 crit + 13 det = 6.4
HA = 13 crit = 2.7 (-3.7)

As you can see, any swap that you make will cancel out the gains from the judgement ring, with the boots or wrist swap actual being worse. Also not for someone like me who values crit more than http://ffxiv.ariyala.com, even the earring swap is worse.

[tOnni3]

For me, priority is
1. Acc cap for T9 or close
2. WD come first, then Int
3. Select i110 piece that give at least Crit or Det
(with this logic, only HA Ring is compromised by Ramuh ring)

All in all, I believe (ya, no proof) dps discrepancy is minimal in any variation of full ilvl 110.
So, my build is to maximize no. of HA piece to minimize Sands, Oil. (honestly I rather spend Allied Seals to awesome look GC geats <; ). Only Evenstar chest and Wrist are worth upgrading IMO.

[Havenchild]

Note that for this post I will be using the coefficients from http://ffxiv.ariyala.com (even though my testing has shown that crit should be weighted higher than this)
WP = 6.57
Int = 1
Crit =0.211
Det = 0.283
SS = 0.094



This statement is totally correct.

2 int + 13 spell SS from HA = 3.2
17 crit + 9 det from Judgement ring = 6.1 (+2.9)

However now we need to focus on that last sentence "As long as you meet the acc req in coil." Any BIS build will be hovering right around the Acc cap, so we still need to figure out a way to make up the lost Acc from the HA ring.
Lets look at some possibilities...

Earrings (swap HA with Sold):
HA = 19 crit + 9 det = 6.6
Sold = 13 det = 3.7 (-2.9)

Boots (swap Sold with HA):
Sold = 25 crit + 18 SS = 7.0
HA = 18 crit = 3.8 (-3.2)
Wris (swap Sold with HA):
Sold = 13 crit + 13 det = 6.4
HA = 13 crit = 2.7 (-3.7)

As you can see, any swap that you make will cancel out the gains from the judgement ring, with the boots or wrist swap actual being worse. Also not for someone like me who values crit more than http://ffxiv.ariyala.com, even the earring swap is worse.

The thing about these stat weighs especially when spell speed comes into focus, is spell speed is largely useless on the class overall and more so atm due to the current bug with Pets & Enhanced Pet Actions.

Every time you cast Ruin 2 (which you should be for maximum DPS rotations prior to using Fester) and Bio (Refreshing a main DoT), Spell speed becomes more and more useless overall.

This makes swapping in some parts on the left side more beneficial for the sake of higher ACC. While the earrings are better on a direct comparison, comparing weighted gains from both, there is virtually no build you can make with those earrings that can't be outdone by another using the evenstar earrings when aiming to satisfy the current Coil Cap.

[Dwill]

Note that for this post I will be using the coefficients from http://ffxiv.ariyala.com (even though my testing has shown that crit should be weighted higher than this)

With the huge primary stats we gain in 2.2, CRT and DET are pretty much of equal value.

I'm gonna assume were playing the same game. I've personally tried both books on T6, T8 and striking dummies. The Book of Spades for me, seems to tick higher for each DoT on average then the HA Book. I can only contribute this to the amount of DET in between the books despite that one clearly has more *Magic Attack* and Intelligence. If two magic attack was such a decisive increase then by no means should 31 DET be even ticking on average similar numbers.

Also your builds are uneven, one is using food , one isnt. One is also substituting a large amount of Int for a spike in DET which is also largely uneven in comparison to your other build.

Simply keeping the same build and switch the books, will suffice. The shift should be 3INT + 2 MAttk(High Allagan Book) vs 31 DET (Either Novus or BoS) if your using the same to compare.

I fixed the mistake with food in the first post and

Your second claim is not true either:

Even value CRT and DET Build 1 using full CRT and DET Novus: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NGQV (Even CRT and DET build came out the exact same as DET oriented build in the first post due to how itemization is done).
Even value CRT and DET Build 2 using High Allagan: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NGR0

Bio
(77*.2714745 + 576*.1006032 + (330-202)*.0241327 + 77*576*.0036167 + 77*(330-202)*.0010800 - 1) * (40/100) * 1.3 * (1 + 0.5*(0.0697 * 535 - 18.437)/100) = 143.3877
(75*.2714745 + 573*.1006032 + (363-202)*.0241327 + 75*573*.0036167 + 75*(363-202)*.0010800 - 1) * (40/100) * 1.3 * (1 + 0.5*(0.0697 * 535 - 18.437)/100) = 141.8901

Bio II and Miasma
(77*.2714745 + 576*.1006032 + (330-202)*.0241327 + 77*576*.0036167 + 77*(330-202)*.0010800 - 1) * (35/100) * 1.3 * (1 + 0.5*(0.0697 * 535 - 18.437)/100) = 125.4643
(75*.2714745 + 573*.1006032 + (363-202)*.0241327 + 75*573*.0036167 + 75*(363-202)*.0010800 - 1) * (35/100) * 1.3 * (1 + 0.5*(0.0697 * 535 - 18.437)/100) = 124.1538

Fester
(77*.2714745 + 576*.1006032 + (330-202)*.0241327 + 77*576*.0036167 + 77*(330-202)*.0010800 - 1) * (300/100) * 1.3 * (1 + 0.5*(0.0697 * 535 - 18.437)/100) = 1075.4084
(75*.2714745 + 573*.1006032 + (363-202)*.0241327 + 75*573*.0036167 + 75*(363-202)*.0010800 - 1) * (300/100) * 1.3 * (1 + 0.5*(0.0697 * 535 - 18.437)/100) = 1064.1758

If you factor in the difference in the Spell Speed difference as well, Build 2 will yield about 1.5% more damage than Build 1. That's also excluding the difference in Enhanced Pet actions procs, which in itself is harder to quantify.

You are correct when saying that it is better to keep a balance between both CRT and DET but your theory of DoTs being stronger with a full DET/CRT Novus than High Allagan is still wrong, High Allagan is still better.

* Thanks for the correction but I left out the extra Crit and Spell speed the HA book gives, because these two stats are not direct modifiers of damage like INT/DET or WD.

CRT while not a direct damage stats is still a damage modifying stats which can be calculated to give an average damage value of an ability.

[Uninstall]

What does Ruin2 have anything to do with how spell speed is weighted? If anything, Ruin and Ruin2 are the primary reasons to translate the extra spell speed into damage. More SS=more Ruin/Ruin2 you can cast between having to recast DoTs. I also do not understand your argument with Bio.

[YanderePrincess]

BiS between 2.2 and 2.3 hasn't and wont change, without the introduction of any new i110 pieces none of the BiS lists have changed.

Didn't 2.3 add i90 crafted accessories, which when pentamelded can potentially be better than the i110 stuff? I know this is something that changed on the BiS list for BLM, so might change smn, too.

[pacifist0rz]

With the huge primary stats we gain in 2.2, CRT and DET are pretty much of equal value.

Yep that is what I was trying to say with the part of my statement in (). http://ffxiv.ariyala.com has det being weighted higher than crit, but my testing shows that crit is actually slightly beter than det now.

Here's my BiS btw. I made this at the beginning of 2.2 when accuracy caps were discovered and this list I cooked up has a perfect amount of accuracy

I am not sure where your list came from, but the link below is the BIS build using your coefficients (which are the same as http://ffxiv.ariyala.com coefficients)

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NGS1

Thinking 2 Int is worth more then 40+ DET is horrendous.

Your statement is a massive exaggeration; no one anywhere is arguing that 2 int is better than 40 DET. 1 int is worth 3.5 det based on the http://ffxiv.ariyala.com coefficients. I am probably as anti-det as anyone comes, and my personal testing has shown it to be more like 1 int is worth ~6 det.

[Havenchild]

What does Ruin2 have anything to do with how spell speed is weighted? If anything, Ruin and Ruin2 are the primary reasons to translate the extra spell speed into damage. More SS=more Ruin/Ruin2 you can cast between having to recast DoTs. I also do not understand your argument with Bio.

On average assuming your playing optimally, you will always be able to cast 3-4 Ruin I per 10 seconds (Fester CD). You never will optimally be able to bend that to get even one more cast off for sure, and not hurt yourself elsewhere immensely.

Spell Speeds strongest strength is your ability to stand still and just cast non-stop without interruption, due to the fact that stacking spell speed allows you to break into previous casts earlier before actual completion of the skill. Since Bio and Ruin 2 are both instant skills, these don't break into a previous recast of something such as if you were to cast Bio with generally any skill with a cast time.

Playing optimally, you should be Ruin 2-ing before your Fester CD comes up and should be weaving in your Pet CDs between your Instant skills. Assuming your doing both, you will often find it hard to just constantly be spamming Ruin in between DoTs and actually performing optimally.

1) What bug with Pets & Enhanced Pet Actions?

2) Ruin II and Bio cast times are unaffected by SS, true, but more important is the fact that the GCD is reduced by SS. Shorter GCD means less time spent on refreshing dots (you get the dot re-applied more quickly, and then can go back to ruin/ruin II casting) and more ruins/ruin IIs being cast while DoTs are up.

Instant cast GCD abilities do not diminish the benefit of SS. The only time when Reduced Casting Time is more significant than Reduced Cooldown is when the casting time is greater than the cooldown or you have to move before the unmodified casting time would finish.

1) Previously the cast time of your pets skills was reduced when enhanced pet actions proc'd. On top of that many would say that the stats of your pet are that of when you first summon them, yet SS is not factored into this at all.

I also answered your second question prior to seeing your post.

Your statement is a massive exaggeration; no one anywhere is arguing that 2 int is better than 40 DET. 1 int is worth 3.5 det based on the http://ffxiv.ariyala.com coefficients. I am probably as anti-det as anyone comes, and my personal testing has shown it to be more like 1 int is worth ~6 det.

No one is indeed arguing directly of this comparison. However, you are indirectly arguing it by not pursuing builds with 2 less INT and the weight of DET you can gain from these builds.

I also didn't mention it before but I also do feel Crit should be slightly higher then .211. I personally feel it's closer to .250ish. Certainly closer to the DET weight for sure.

[YanderePrincess]

The thing about these stat weighs especially when spell speed comes into focus, is spell speed is largely useless on the class overall and more so atm due to the current bug with Pets & Enhanced Pet Actions.

Every time you cast Ruin 2 (which you should be for maximum DPS rotations prior to using Fester) and Bio (Refreshing a main DoT), Spell speed becomes more and more useless overall.

1) What bug with Pets & Enhanced Pet Actions?

2) Ruin II and Bio cast times are unaffected by SS, true, but more important is the fact that the GCD is reduced by SS. Shorter GCD means less time spent on refreshing dots (you get the dot re-applied more quickly, and then can go back to ruin/ruin II casting) and more ruins/ruin IIs being cast while DoTs are up.

Instant cast GCD abilities do not diminish the benefit of SS. The only time when Reduced Casting Time is more significant than Reduced Cooldown is when the casting time is greater than the cooldown or you have to move before the unmodified casting time would finish.

[Dwill]

1) What bug with Pets & Enhanced Pet Actions?

2) Ruin II and Bio cast times are unaffected by SS, true, but more important is the fact that the GCD is reduced by SS. Shorter GCD means less time spent on refreshing dots (you get the dot re-applied more quickly, and then can go back to ruin/ruin II casting) and more ruins/ruin IIs being cast while DoTs are up.

Instant cast GCD abilities do not diminish the benefit of SS. The only time when Reduced Casting Time is more significant than Reduced Cooldown is when the casting time is greater than the cooldown or you have to move before the unmodified casting time would finish.

1) There is no Spell Speed bug. It was confirmed by the Square Enix that Spell Speed does not affect pet and that they don't have any plans to change that.
2) You would be correct on the whole thing here.

Didn't 2.3 add i90 crafted accessories, which when pentamelded can potentially be better than the i110 stuff? I know this is something that changed on the BiS list for BLM, so might change smn, too.

Since BLM benefits really well from all 3 stats, the Intelligence lost can be compensated but for Summoners whose benefits from Spell Speed is relatively low, the gain we get from Pentamelding doesn't compensate the Intelligence lost.