So resetting's against the rules now?

[Thayos]

The real fix to this dilemma (for now) is to simply be considerate toward your fellow gamers.

If you're all alone (or with a couple friends) and nobody's coming, go ahead and pull. If you're at an elite mark with a group and lots of other people are clearly on the way, show some courtesy and wait a bit before pulling.

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

[ispano]

The real fix to this dilemma (for now) is to simply be considerate toward your fellow gamers.

If you're all alone (or with a couple friends) and nobody's coming, go ahead and pull. If you're at an elite mark with a group and lots of other people are clearly on the way, show some courtesy and wait a bit before pulling.

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

But you don't get it. What you're saying about being considerate, goes AGAINST how the system is supposed to work. People being "considerate" is why the system isn't working properly in the first place. The funny part to me, is people wanted open world content like this. Yet many of them, back when they asked, didn't truly understand that THIS is what would happen.

The system was designed to work with smaller groups, even solo players for B ranks. And at least one reason for that is it's far too expensive to design servers around the load the players are placing on them. Hence the issues with vanishing and such. There ARE solutions to allow that many people in one spot, but I can bet many players would not like it. Imagine if EVE's TIDI was implemented here, how many players do you think would like it? Since it would affect the entire zone mind you.

Not to mention, when you say don't be selfish, it goes both ways. Saying people should be considerate and wait, is selfish of you.

It's like using a product in a way it wasn't intended to be used, then expecting to still get support for it. No, you did it "wrong" so you deal with the consequences, not the people who use it right. Because doing it wrong here, is actually affecting those who choose to do it right.

[Mcshiggs]

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

I'm still waiting to see a GM say that not waiting for the sheep mob to zerg the mark is griefing. It is only griefing in the minds of people like you, not in the ToS, you know the rules you agree to when you start playing.

[Thayos]

Still not the same.

You're being way too literal.

You seemed to say that something can't be called "griefing" unless there's a rule in place to say it is. I'm saying that's a load of crap.

[ispano]

You're being way too literal.

You seemed to say that something can't be called "griefing" unless there's a rule in place to say it is. I'm saying that's a load of crap.

Yet i'm not. If the person takes the cashier in my example, are they griefing you? You were just standing there, never went up to the cashier or anything. Same thing with the mob, you were standing around and not claiming it. No griefing is involved. The fault lies with you and you alone for waiting.

[Enkrateia]

I'm still waiting to see a GM say that not waiting for the sheep mob to zerg the mark is griefing. It is only griefing in the minds of people like you, not in the ToS, you know the rules you agree to when you start playing.

In general, any monster in the world that is able to be attacked can be attacked at any time. There is no user agreement section that details the proper time to wait before attacking a hunt mark, at this time. That being said, actions determined to be taken with the intent of disrupting the game play of others can be reported as a grief tactic. This disruption applies to the people actually at the hunt mark, and convoluting the "disruption" to apply because not enough people were present for you to get full credit misses the actual impact of the disruption. And because nothing is black and white, this does not mean that pulling the hunt mark will not result in a grief tactics violation. The circumstances that would cause it are rarer, but not impossible. A GM would make that determination after investigating a report on potential grief tactics.

As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate. However, unless the hunt mark is pulled in a manner that a GM finds to be intentionally disruptive, waiting is a social behaviour, not an edict within the rules.

[Mcshiggs]

As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate.

I think it is ridiculous to wait for 100 people to gang up on a B rank. I know many people that are being waitied on for As and S's were standing in town, or crafting or something, and not out actually hunting, I know many times an S rank spawned and folks dropped out of dungeon groups so they could go kill it, I know that none of that stuff is against the rules, but if you are the type of player that does any of that, or supports it by sitting around waiting on them, then you wouldn't be the type of person I would want to group with.

I read your whole post, and I'm sorry that happened to you. But why would you want to cause anguish to people who had nothing to do with the folks who griefed you?

The people in the hunt shells benefit from those that did grief me, if you read the entire post you would see that I said you can tell a lot about people by the people they choose to be around, you choose to be parts of those shells, and to benefit from it when they grief others, so I don't think any more of you than I do those that do the griefing. You and I also have very different definitions of anguish, I don't consider missing one mark anguish, especially if you are in one of those groups that kills nonstop for hours. It's not that I am being mean to the folks that aren't there if I do pull a mark, it's I owe no loyalty to them. If I pull before 200 show up, I get more credit, if I wait, I get less, by saying I am greifing them, is like saying their rewards are more important than mine.

[Giantbane]

If I pull before 200 show up, I get more credit, if I wait, I get less, by saying I am greifing them, is like saying their rewards are more important than mine.

When the content first came out, I was hunting with small groups and wouldn't wait too long for fear of not getting credit.

Since then, I have found it much more enjoyable to join the bigger LSs and participate as part of a much larger group as long as people are being polite about the kills and sharing with others. As long as everyone is in a group they all get credit. By sharing, you're not only helping others by getting them credit, but you encourage them to share kills they find with you.

And getting in a group is easy, usually there's a few that are up on PF or if you're solo and in zone with a hunt mob, it's very easy to either shout for others to invite you or form your own party with others who are shouting for invites. 8 people in group should make getting credit easy as long as everyone can hit the monster once or twice. Even better with a tank or healer in your group spamming high threat moves.

But play as you like if you feel like you'll enjoy that better I guess.

[Mcshiggs]

Yay for big hunt shells.

Like I have said many times, the people that started some of the hunt shells were people I didn't like and were on my blacklist even before the hunts, I choose not to be a part of those groups, and I am ok with the fact that it will take me longer to get marks and what not. If I see a group gathered around a mark, I don't pull those, I wait because I or the folks in my group didn't find it, now if I find a mark, or someone in my group does, I pull when we have enough to kill it, I will shout in zone, and if there is room I will invite those that ask for invites or will take a random invite if I am solo. I'm just not a fan of the huge horde, and choose not to be a part of it and not to support it, I don't think there is anything malicious with it, and I am ok with not getting all the perks that comes along with it, it's just how I choose to play.

[Velo_Vandore]

I'm just not a fan of the huge horde, and choose not to be a part of it and not to support it, I don't think there is anything malicious with it, and I am ok with not getting all the perks that comes along with it, it's just how I choose to play.

Exactly, I can't understand why people will support and participate in this rediculous hoard and zerg gameplay, just because the reward is high. Why on earth have the devs allowed endless grindng of seals to be possible instead of limiting to the daily / weekly bills, or adding a seals cap? As another player suggested why not simply add a vending machine for tomes and seals in each main city, since currently hunts are not gameplay of any kind. Spamming medica, and high emnity moves?? Come on guys, is this what you are paying for? This is the way you want to play?

So many talk of courtesy being sharing the hunt with many players by waiting. This to me is not courtesy but instead a shameful way to dishonour and destroy this game. So how great is it for everyone to farm hunts like mindless drones, and leave nobody bothered to actually play a dungeon? - hunts as they are now are a great way to destroy a cool game... :/ If you value the game and quality gameplay, stop spamming hunts. True courtesy in my view would be to do your weekly or daily hunt bill, and maybe the odd hunt you find out there, but to stop spamming and let other players have a chance at some hunts. The game DOES NOT restrict you and sure you have every right to spam hunts all day and night, but if everyone did choose to ease off of their own accord (since SE make no mention of limiting the ability to farm constantly) we would be able to enjoy hunts as serious challenges like they were advertised to be.

Of course I don't suggest this cold ever happen, since people are generally focused on easiest rewards over engaging gameplay. Unfortunately this attitude in gamers has prevented me from being able to enjoy hunts at all, by taking them on in smaller groups and actually having some challenge. All this talk of party up and spam medica / emnity moves is absolutely pathetic. Where is your sense of adventure, challenge, accomplishment? I'll stick to dungeons for now, and I hope the devs will correct this mess that is the hunt.