Simplicity over complexity, time to change.

[Magis]

Still playing, are you not?

Just because people play, doesn't mean they don't have issues with a part of the game? I play because I like Final Fantasy, I love the lore and stories, and I like to chill with my FC. That doesn't mean I think that much of the gameplay could be made better and more interesting. I guess everyone who disliked the Atma grind (I personally enjoyed it), disliked hunts, or any other plethora of reasons people complain about, should be ignored because they didn't quit over a single issue?

[WeiShan]

I played WOW for 6.5 years,player eq for 2 month,UO for 2 yrs
liked UO the most, EQ the second, had a memorable adventure in these games.

played WOW for the longest time but I hate it at the end.
vanilla WOW was great, after that I slowly realized WOW was just using a gear treadmill to take my money.
no more adventure,players don't help each others and blame each others because they wiped.

Then I tried XIV1.0, I was surprised,it had the charm, the sense of adventure.
it's the game that I've waited for a decade,I was so regretted & asked myself why I picked WOW not FFXI?
Yes 1.0 UI & copy pasted maps were suck.1.0 wasn't that bad, it was just unfinished
I kept playing it, after patches it became better and better.
The game required player interaction, community was great,it was a real MMO.

As you can see 99% 1.23/XIV players love XI/1.23 & don't like ARR/WOW clone.
because XI/1.23 had some magic in them


Yoshi chose an easy route,he made another wow clone,a gear treadmill dungeon co-op game,
because it's much eaiser to design,
but I think it won't last for more than two years,just look at those "modern" WOW clones on the market.

New patches won't save ARR,because the game is heading to a wrong direction,it is going downhill.
and this time, I think Yoshi may really ruin the Final Fantasy brand.
I mean, ask a kid "Do you know what is Final Fantasy", "Ah,I know,an easy & simple MMO?"
The brand doen't mean "the best of the best" , it isn't a memorable game title, anymore.

[Gilthas]

By continuing to mimic an MMO released in 2004. I get what you were trying to say, but the reality of the situation is...sadly nope, MMOs stagnated because of that.

That's like saying that the world has stagnated because wheels have been round for hundreds of years.

On the other hand, if we went back to FFXI's standards, we'd get something worse than stagnation, we'd get regression.

All the negative and useless comments i'm seeing have one thing in common, FFXI and FFXIV 1.x hate, as i have already said several times, this is a feedback thread, i want it to last and be helpful, and because of this, hateful posts like yours are not welcome here, post feedback or leave please, if you want to stay and discuss leave personal attacks and hate at the door.

I think we can all do without the spite, but what if our feedback is "we don't want to go back to FFXI"? Because when you tell people who disagree with you to leave it leads to this kind of nonsense:

As you can see 99% 1.23/XIV players love XI/1.23 & don't like ARR/WOW clone.

At most "99% 1.23/XIV players that didn't quit the game love XI/1.23 & don't like ARR/WOW clone." is much closer to the truth.

[Redemption]

That's like saying that the world has stagnated because wheels have been round for hundreds of years.

On the other hand, if we went back to FFXI's standards, we'd get something worse than stagnation, we'd get regression.

No it wouldn't, WoW is not an 'evolution' of FFXI it is a completely different path entirely. An EVOLUTION of FFXI's mechanics would be finding a way to keep the MMO an online world but remove some of the problems, WoW instead chooses not to be an online world entirely but more of an online meta-game about rolling through gear progression with friends.

To make sure the point is clear, I do not believe FFXI used "outdated" systems but rather was a different kind of game. Some people like the WoW style gameish style, thats fine and there are lots of mmos like that (its the most common type of mmo around today) but its not what everyone likes or wants.

[Gilthas]

No it wouldn't, WoW is not an 'evolution' of FFXI it is a completely different path entirely. An EVOLUTION of FFXI's mechanics would be finding a way to keep the MMO an online world but remove some of the problems, WoW instead chooses not to be an online world entirely but more of an online meta-game about rolling through gear progression with friends.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you can label it as something else and pretend it's not an evolution of the genre.

EDIT: And to make my point clear, yes, FFXI did use a lot of outdated systems because the ye ol' MMO's were based on making you waste as much time as possible in order to get stuff done so content would last longer and you'd keep on paying monthly fees. Hence why teleports were so limited, gear had severe lockouts that puts FFXIV to shame, why the vast majority of content required groups, etc, etc.

[Dannythm]

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you can label it as something else and pretend it's not an evolution of the genre.

And you can't do the same thing.

Evolution works because it takes many different paths, and MMO's have not been evolving since 2004 because 99% of them just follow the same path. Nobody tried to evolve the MMO concept of XI, now we are seeing some other stuff with star citizen and racing mmo's and so on, but in the terms of MMO-RPG, there has not been a single evolution in the genre on a design standpoint since 1.0 failed, and it was the first since 2004.

Gimmicks and polish, we've seen a lot, but real improvements and new directions and evolution? none at all.

[Redemption]

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you can label it as something else and pretend it's not an evolution of the genre.

EDIT: And to make my point clear, yes, FFXI did use a lot of outdated systems because the ye ol' MMO's were based on making you waste as much time as possible in order to get stuff done so content would last longer and you'd keep on paying monthly fees. Hence why teleports were so limited, gear had severe lockouts that puts FFXIV to shame, why the vast majority of content required groups, etc, etc.

Except that stuff also serves another purpose? You're so full of crap its not even funny. Re-examine my example, FFXI invested a lot of effort into making elements of the world feel realistic and alive and worldly. Removing things just because they take time can have a detrimental effect on that purpose and doing so is the opposite of an evolution imo. IF you insist that the two are not separate then WoW is the regression as it stripped away things that made mmos great and added in cheesy throwaway addiction forming content instead.

Or you know... it was built around a virtual world that people would explore and exist in. If the point was to play content longer, then FFXI wouldn't have airships, ferries, and the crag teleports, which barring the crags, make sense in a virtual world which would have some sort of transportation. The crags even were given a deep lore behind the reasoning for their existence, and were spread out enough that it let you move across the world without too much trouble, but still made players actually move through it like a person living in Vana'diel would have to. The old games were based on the roots of RPGs which was based on DnD, a game where you take the role of an adventurer in another world.

This.

[Moqi]

Is yall's issue that at level 50 you aren't killed so easily? Personally, I'm okay with that.
The current lore of the game, unlike every other FF or even RPG that I can think of, does NOT include "There are horrible monsters that want us dead in the world now and we have to drive them back". (Instead, we have "These horrible primals have been summoned and we need to send them back to the plane they came from.") So, right now, story-wise, a super dangerous world doesn't make sense. Maybe it will change later on.

Agreed completely and

I wouldn't mind having some puzzle dungeons. Fewer things to kill; more stuff the party has to figure out in order to advance.

This! It's the only kind of complexity I would ask for rn. FFXIII-2's puzzles were super fun (clocks were my favourites). Something like that reworked for a full party would be amazing. The "puzzles" in the dungeons (like Satasha's...) are just there to block the party rather than engage it.

[Magis]

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you can label it as something else and pretend it's not an evolution of the genre.

EDIT: And to make my point clear, yes, FFXI did use a lot of outdated systems because the ye ol' MMO's were based on making you waste as much time as possible in order to get stuff done so content would last longer and you'd keep on paying monthly fees. Hence why teleports were so limited, gear had severe lockouts that puts FFXIV to shame, why the vast majority of content required groups, etc, etc.

Or you know... it was built around a virtual world that people would explore and exist in. If the point was to play content longer, then FFXI wouldn't have airships, ferries, and the crag teleports, which barring the crags, make sense in a virtual world which would have some sort of transportation. The crags even were given a deep lore behind the reasoning for their existence, and were spread out enough that it let you move across the world without too much trouble, but still made players actually move through it like a person living in Vana'diel would have to. The old games were based on the roots of RPGs which was based on DnD, a game where you take the role of an adventurer in another world.

[Velhart]

Just because people play, doesn't mean they don't have issues with a part of the game? I play because I like Final Fantasy, I love the lore and stories, and I like to chill with my FC. That doesn't mean I think that much of the gameplay could be made better and more interesting. I guess everyone who disliked the Atma grind (I personally enjoyed it), disliked hunts, or any other plethora of reasons people complain about, should be ignored because they didn't quit over a single issue?

Point more was if you are still doing the content, you are having some fun in it. I don't disagree on the fights being too scripted. If anything I wish they were less scripted and not as punishing for one person making a small mistake.