Simplicity over complexity, time to change.

[Gilthas]

Wow, almost like.... transportation would? Next you will tell me all shops aren't open 24/7.
Which gives players utility and let's part of the world be run by the players (also the point of crafting). I didn't say teleports should 100% be gone (heck FFXI had em), rather that they should be used conservatively. The crags were the main focal point in two major expansion's story lines as oppose to atheryte having a small footnote somewhere on the lodestone. Also, even it's own lore is broken since Yoshi remove the anima system which would have been a nice compromise.

Well, as we have seen with Hunts, teleports are not in their vacuum, and have contributed heavily on breaking that portion of the game.

Sorry, but timetables making them realistic doesn't excuse the fact that they wasted a lot of your time. And no, the crags weren't a focal point of two major expansion stories, the focal points were the characters and the story behing them, the crags were just places you passed through.

[Redemption]

Oh, but that's where you're wrong! I played FFXI for years and loved it until I finally burned out. And that's why I don't want FFXIV to be another FFXI.

I love it how you say things like "you don't understand why things were as they were". I do. They were like that to waste our time. Because teleports don't need to be removed from FFXIV for us to go out and immerse ourselves in it's world.

And that's the big problem with most of the claims for bringing back the stuff in FFXI, they're just stuff designed to waste our time, and that's why they're outdated because developers understood that what players want to do is to actually play a game, not waste a lot of time between the moments when they're actually playing.

No, see, you don't get it if you think it was there to waste your time. You do not get that some things require subtle influence and REQUIRE you not to have instant satisfaction in order to be enjoyed. A living world is one such thing, I would say progression is another (delayed satisfaction of obtaining a really cool unique item for example). It was not added (only, somethings certainly kept in mind a subscription) merely to waste time but to give the world flavor and enhance the big experiences. However, since that is and will always be your stance apparently, theres no further point in debating you on it.

You know, I really like my character clothes become wet in the rain. It does creates immersion. FF14 has it, while FF11 has not (as well as WoW).
The point is that you can add immersion feature without need to worsen accessibility/simplicity of "everyone" content. You just need to be more creative and look around to possibilities, without sticking "it was like so in ff11, so let make it the same in ff14"

I don't believe i've said make anything like ffxi in this thread, I am merely defending its concepts as valid ideas. And yes, some immersion can be added that wont affect accessibility and simplicity but I actively dislike the simplicity of this game personally. Does that mean it needs to change? No. Would I like it to change? yes. Do I want to take your cookies and run? No. I am just stating what I would like to see in the game, and to be honest I don't think this game will ever be what I want and thats alright (I do wish more people would be open to letting a niche game exist though, it seems like on every mmo since wow everyone argues purely that majority wins. Being that so many similar games already exist why is it not ok to think a ffxi should exist out there somewhere? I get that you are already invested in THIS game so you dont really like the idea that change could make it unappealing but why shoot down the idea entirely?)

[odintius]

<3 that fact that this conversation digress to ffxi vs wow lmfao.

[Gilthas]

1000 wow clones, 0 ffxi clones. Why in the heck would you want another WoW clone?

Because 1 FF WoW clone and 1 FFXI is better for me than 2 FFXI's. It's even better for me because I never played WoW or any of it's clones.

I knew AoC, Tera, Aion, Rift were all going to die or become free to play after playing them for a few months. I haven't decided what will happen to XIV next year. I think it will die since Yoshi is against free to play.
XI lasted longer (still is, albeit it is totally different game now) than all the above as a subscription game (still is too). But XIV... its not made to be a long lasting game. So i quit the game since I dont want to invest in a game with no future. Why do I make these posts? Because I am bored and because I miss XIV 1.23 and what they did to this game!

ARR has nothing good:
1. the battle system sucks
2. it is all instanced
3. gear treadmill
4. doing same dungeons for gear treadmill; get new gear to do the old dungeon to get more gear
5. the world is small and instant teleports
6. the world is dead, the music in environment is bad (Mordhona is so annoying), there is no sense of being in the world

When people realize the above, subscriptions will dwindle.

And like I have pointed out before, while it is entirely possible that FFXIV will die out soon, there is no reason to believe that making it more like FFXI or 1.23 would make the game last longer. Though I doubt most of you will ever admit that fact.

[Velhart]

snip

Funny thing about FFXI in my 2003-2010 campaign, everyone was finding ways to make the game as convenient as possible. Even to the point that someone would climb up the mountain and drop down to a spot for an ENM, then we all die next to the cliff, BLM tractors and raises us. People rather sit in town and shout for an hour for a Crag teleport instead of just running there. People try to work any loop holes they could to get past the obvious inconveniences. I constantly hear people complain that they wish boats and airships had an option to instant teleport you there. "Hey guys, I just missed the airship, gotta wait 15 minutes before we can start EXP'ing." Its all opinion if people liked this or not, but MMO's have evolved over the years for better or worse to cater to both hardcore and casual, not one way or the other.

[Renik]

As you might not noticed, but I do post my feedback, it's just completely opposite of yours.
I don't want "realistic immersive world where elves lives", I play MMO for last 15 years and I am already a bit too old for escaping a reality. I want a *good* place where I can chat with people, do different stuff to spend time, raid for acomplishment. And I want it to be a *game*, a comfortable one that gives me a pleasure, and where you don't feel like being a leftover regardless how long you play - whether it 30 mins a day or 12 hours non-stop grind. Even if it will be a bit unnatural and "lifeless".

My goal is getting to a point where everyone can enjoy this game equally, you have to understand something, as much as ppl ask for ffxi-2 (i don't think this is the case) this won't be happening, hence we won't steal your fun, instead we want to add some fun for us, the way to achieve this is getting collaboration from both sides, but all i hear is a plain "no to ffxi-2".

[ErBear]

Because 1 FF WoW clone and 1 FFXI is better for me than 2 FFXI's. It's even better for me because I never played WoW or any of it's clones.

So you played FFXI for years and never touched another mmo? Heck even I played wow for a few months to check it out. I've played tones of free to play mmos. I know what I like, I don't like short term mmos with instant gratification which this game is. There is literally no work to be done with anything you do in the game. As I said before, a player who plays this game everyday will be in the same league as the person who logs in once a week. It's a terrible design flaw to have everyone on equal footing. The only thing that separates the everyday player and once a week player is SOMETIMES the skill level. Though, what does skill in this game have to do with anything when fights are pretty easy in this game because they can be memorized just by a few times playing them, hell just watch a fight on youtube a few times.

[Gilthas]

No, see, you don't get it if you think it was there to waste your time. You do not get that some things require subtle influence and REQUIRE you not to have instant satisfaction in order to be enjoyed. A living world is one such thing, I would say progression is another (delayed satisfaction of obtaining a really cool unique item for example). It was not added (only, somethings certainly kept in mind a subscription) merely to waste time but to give the world flavor and enhance the big experiences. However, since that is and will always be your stance apparently, theres no further point in debating you on it.

And yet the big problem of your argument is and will always be that you don't need to waste a player's time to enhance the world for them. There is literally nothing preventing you from going down the slow road, only your own problems with seeing others around you on the highway.

So you played FFXI for years and never touched another mmo? Heck even I played wow for a few months to check it out. I've played tones of free to play mmos. I know what I like, I don't like short term mmos with instant gratification which this game is. There is literally no work to be done with anything you do in the game. As I said before, a player who plays this game everyday will be in the same league as the person who logs in once a week. It's a terrible design flaw to have everyone on equal footing. The only thing that separates the everyday player and once a week player is SOMETIMES the skill level. Though, what does skill in this game have to do with anything when fights are pretty easy in this game because they can be memorized just by a few times playing them, hell just watch a fight on youtube a few times.

Sorry if you don't get to be a special snowflake.

Some of us aren't driven by selfishness as I play a lot (probably too much) and have zero problems with people that play less reaching my level or leaving me in the dust.

Though if you actually played the game you'd see that there are things in the game that take time to achieve.

My goal is getting to a point where everyone can enjoy this game equally, you have to understand something, as much as ppl ask for ffxi-2 (i don't think this is the case) this won't be happening, hence we won't steal your fun, instead we want to add some fun for us, the way to achieve this is getting collaboration from both sides, but all i hear is a plain "no to ffxi-2".

You have to realize that some of the things you're asking for are simply incompatible with keeping some of the stuff people like about the current game.

[Redemption]

Funny thing about FFXI in my 2003-2010 campaign, everyone was finding ways to make the game as convenient as possible. Even to the point that someone would climb up the mountain and drop down to a spot for an ENM, then we all die next to the cliff, BLM tractors and raises us. People rather sit in town and shout for an hour for a Crag teleport instead of just running there. People try to work any loop holes they could to get past the obvious inconveniences. I constantly hear people complain that they wish boats and airships had an option to instant teleport you there. "Hey guys, I just missed the airship, gotta wait 15 minutes before we can start EXP'ing." Its all opinion if people liked this or not, but MMO's have evolved over the years for better or worse to cater to both hardcore and casual, not one way or the other.

I would actually argue that was part of the intrigue of it all. The world was set, it had its conventions and people would be efficient within those rules to get their way. I played FFXI pretty much until june of this year from NA launch (with some on and off), so I know full well how people would act and get around and do things. You'll find thats the same anywhere in games but I still would say that it has an effect over making the instant travel the norm.

And yet the big problem of your argument is and will always be that you don't need to waste a player's time to enhance the world for them. There is literally nothing preventing you from going down the slow road, only your own problems with seeing others around you on the highway.

Its not the amount of time that matters really, and its true that you can enhance the world with elements that don't take time (like the above rain affecting clothes example) but they're different elements so the ones that do take time are still lacking in the end its still a different experience than what some are seeking. Im going to make a note here, I personally have not suggested anything as a way to solve my issues with ffxiv in this thread except altering itemization. Would a lot of ffxi's systems fit here? Quite possibly not, if they were they would likely need to be adjusted to fit into the systems that are already in the game. To explain, FFXIV is already a relatively small world and with how the world is built removing teleports in 'current' zones wouldnt likely help. If they had say, a large frontier map with danger and no teleports in the future that might be interesting but its a striking contrast to what already is. Suffice to say as far as FFXIV goes, any adjustment would need to be made carefully and adjusted to fit the native landscape (game systems).

Yeah, for the most part the effect was annoying people.

With each post you seem to simply be making yourself out to be a closed minded and rude individual. Can nobody have an opinion that is not your own? I have tried quite hard to make sure my statements are regarding my own and likely some similar minded people's opinions and not making general blanket statements intending to insult your opinion on what is a good game.

[Gilthas]

I would actually argue that was part of the intrigue of it all. The world was set, it had its conventions and people would be efficient within those rules to get their way. I played FFXI pretty much until june of this year from NA launch (with some on and off), so I know full well how people would act and get around and do things. You'll find thats the same anywhere in games but I still would say that it has an effect over making the instant travel the norm.

Yeah, for the most part the effect was annoying people.