Beef between WAR and PLD tanks

[stoxastic]

From a pure damage mitigation standpoint PLDs definitely have an advantage. PLD cooldowns are really strong for pure tanking, and the defensive cooldown suite is much better than what WAR offers (IB and Vengeance). Hallowed ground is miles better than holmgang, ask any healer and they'll agree.

WAR can deal a surprising amount of damage while tanking, however, and that offsets their weaker damage mitigation skills. PLD can't do nearly as much dmg while tanking. 1K+ inner beast crits are awesome.

Both tanks are viable in all content despite their differing strengths and weaknesses.

[Enyeto]

Defiance (WAR) increases your base HP by 25% and increases healing received by 20% whereas Shield Oath (PLD) reduces damage by 20%. These, baseline, are equivalent to eachother. So the best way to tell who actually has more HP is if you have more than the PLD without Defiance on.

These 2 abilities do not equal out:

Defiance: +25% HP // +20% Healing Received
Shield Oath: -20% Dmg Taken

Example:
(War: [HP Base] 3100 + [Gear] to 6000HP + [Defiance] 1500 = Total 7500 HP)
(PLD: Geared has 6000HP)

If both took 2 hits @ 3k remaining hp looks like:
War: 1500
Pld: 1200 (-600 dmg per hit)

With that settled, I play Warrior and I prefer to off-tank because I think Paladins are not as strong with AE hate and lack the cool downs to properly OT. MT gets most of the focus healing, WAR's are engineered to survive without immediate healing and are more efficient to heal. Naturally putting them in a spot to take a nasty beating would be better.

[Alphras]

In terms of eHp they equal out. In your example both could take 1500 more damage until they die (1500*0.8 = 1200 for the PLD).

In terms of healing the WAR would need about 4.16% more to get back to max hp.

[whiskeybravo]

These 2 abilities do not equal out:

Defiance: +25% HP // +20% Healing Received
Shield Oath: -20% Dmg Taken

Example:
(War: [HP Base] 3100 + [Gear] to 6000HP + [Defiance] 1500 = Total 7500 HP)
(PLD: Geared has 6000HP)

If both took 2 hits @ 3k remaining hp looks like:
War: 1500
Pld: 1200 (-600 dmg per hit)

Wrong..

PLD with 6000 HP = WAR with 7500 HP

Incoming damage of 3000

PLD 6000 HP - 2400 = 3600 HP (60% HP)
WAR 7500 HP - 3000 = 4500 HP (60% HP)

Incoming Cure of 2000

PLD = 3600 + 2000 = 5600 HP (93% HP)
WAR = 4500 + 2400 = 6900 HP (92% HP)

Same effective HP

[Mjytresz]

Wrong..

PLD with 6000 HP = WAR with 7500 HP

Incoming damage of 3000

PLD 6000 HP - 2400 = 3600 HP (60% HP)
WAR 7500 HP - 3000 = 4500 HP (60% HP)

Incoming Cure of 2000

PLD = 3600 + 2000 = 5600 HP (93% HP)
WAR = 4500 + 2400 = 6900 HP (92% HP)

Same effective HP

The problem with eHP is that it hardly works out in practical scenarios.
Just coming from an Eve Online perspective.

From a novice Tank and experienced Healer perspective, I most definitely prefer Warriors for normal 4-mans. They generally seem to be more capable of holding AoE aggro and the extra HP buffer makes it easier to get off DoTs/Shadow Flare on SCH. For an 8-man, I prefer PLDs. PLDs, from experience healing both, are a lot more sturdy when there's 1 main target to watch out for. Not to mention all that mitigation gives the healer time to heal/raise the DPS who can't dodge AoEs with 4 hour cast time.

[Traek]

The problem with eHP is that it hardly works out in practical scenarios.
Just coming from an Eve Online perspective.

From a novice Tank and experienced Healer perspective, I most definitely prefer Warriors for normal 4-mans. They generally seem to be more capable of holding AoE aggro and the extra HP buffer makes it easier to get off DoTs/Shadow Flare on SCH. For an 8-man, I prefer PLDs. PLDs, from experience healing both, are a lot more sturdy when there's 1 main target to watch out for. Not to mention all that mitigation gives the healer time to heal/raise the DPS who can't dodge AoEs with 4 hour cast time.

Again someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Please stop spreading mis-information. You are wrong.

[whiskeybravo]

The problem with eHP is that it hardly works out in practical scenarios.
Just coming from an Eve Online perspective.

It really is the same, I'm experienced with both tank jobs. The only difference is content. I would not solo tank T5 with WAR (I've certainly seen it done, but I wouldn't want to do it myself, because HG on snakes is OP. If running 2 tank, and exp and gear is equal, anyone who knows both jobs will say WAR is better MT for T5), and I prefer to tank TEX on PLD mainly because of Tempered Will, which isn't even a defensive CD. And like you said regarding dungeons, I only run dungeons on War because of the AoE threat tools.

So there are differences depending on content, but the tanks are really balanced and capable when it comes to surviving.

[Uliq]

You hear in theory a lot over forums but practice isn't theory. In practice damage mitigation changes depending on circumstances. Wars tend to hold IB for large attacks, not all some. Effectively lowering their damage mitigation while pld can simply rotate cooldowns. Even if a pld breaks his cooldowns apart allowing 5 seconds to be not buffed it still maintains the same mitigation over a 3 minute period which is the time it takes for all his defensive cycle to start over. War cannot do this, and it's down time between cooldowns is to large. In theory, they mitigate the same, but this s on paper. But in practice, most of the time pld will mitigate more. PLD doesn't even require the use of Stoneskin or Bloodbath which are viable skills. Bloodbath because it's a CD usuable to increase mitigation dropping the ability to cure or whatever your last unused ability may be. Stoneskin because you can use it after big hits to make the next hit smaller or before big hits to make it smaller, either or.

[whiskeybravo]

snip

The only real advantage PLD has over WAR when it comes to mitigation is blocking. And Hallowed Ground vs Holmgang. Other than that, PLD will run out of CDs for brief periods of time. Content is designed around IB, in every fight it can be avail for the major spike damage mechanic because it's designed as such.

We've already gone over the pros/cons of which tank is better for certain content, and that's really the bottom line here.

[RhazeCain]

A warrior when not tanking can turn Defiance off and use Storm's Path/Eye to keep them up 100% (vs. instead of Butcher's Block sprinkled in, which might mean a debuff falling off). Maybe Fracture too, depending on the fight.

A paladin when not tanking can do Sword Oath and ... RoH a lot?

So you gain a slight advantage from Warrior not actively tanking. Can totally do it either way, as others have already commented. But at least you get a little something different as Warrior OT where the PLD just doing the same thing either way.