Beef between WAR and PLD tanks

[Krindor]

As Spooky mentioned the tank was better geared unless you're using DPS accessories. But generally I feel that WAR is more suited to tank predictable spiky damage encounters due to inner beast which nets the same amount of mitigation as shield oath, and also having higher health.

[Marianno]

DPS accessories in cases of Titan EX because in fights with titan I actually like being an off tank. Less stressful in my opinion and I do like killing stuff lol

[YanderePrincess]

I didn't think that he would have survived most ofthe blows dealt to him during the fight. Not that the PLD tank was incompetent or anything but I think the more HP you ahve as a tank the better

the more Effective HP, the better. You had 8.6k after your +25% hp from Defiance, right? That Paladin's 7.1k HP, however, is made more effective by his 20% damage reduction from Shield Oath, which makes that 7.1k more like 8.5k HP, so he was actually about on par with you at a baseline. When you figure in shield blocking, rampart, bulwark, etc., his effective HP is significantly higher.

Now, that said, your effective HP is above 8.6k as well because of Vengeance and Inner Beast, but the point remains. You can't judge a Paladin purely by the fact he has less HP than the warrior.

As for Titan Ex, my experience has been you generally would rather have the WAR OT just because they're better at rounding up the adds than a Paladin usually is, not that a Paladin can't do it. Also, Paladins have more overall defensive cooldowns to cycle through for pre-empting big hits. Warrior can do this, too, with Inner Beast, but it's easier to find a Paladin who can pop his defensive cycle his defensive cooldowns than to find a warrior who uses Inner Beast correctly.

[Uliq]

Ok I'll explain the diff in war vs pld. Pld is a defense buff, war is a damage buff. While war pretends to tank in most instances it's really up to the healer to keep war alive. So in cases where you say war is actually better, spike damage encounters, all you have to do is use pld buffs as a war would use his. Only rotate foresight and bulwark till the spike damage comes up. this gives you a IB ability with more dr and duration by rotating rampart and sentinel when it's up. PLD prevails at tanking. As for hold do what the warrior does, screw defense. Stop buffing full HP and buff str or str/hp and let the healers manage. If you have a healer who heals a war regularly you won't have an issue. Both tanks tank equally well when the players A: know how to tank, meaning keeping hate and B: when players know when to buff but for war it's harder to stay alive due to the 2 defense buffs vs 4 defense buffs.

[Uliq]

The 25% heal buff from defiance on i110 isn't enough compared to how healers heal plds. 2 heals pld at full or almost. 2 heals war at half or a little above. This is vs the fact the pld gets hit way softer then war due to auto dr, which increases as level and armor increase vs 20% health increase which only increase with armor. There is also block percentage of pld which increases as pld's ilvl increase and/or gains a new shield vs parry and dodge which only increases as ilvl increase. Wars main reason as MRD is long forgotten and we are left with basically a shit class due to the indecision of Developers and their ability to not think ahead. We had this problem already and in one or two updates, when pld gains a new shield and enemies have to hit harder to make up for it, we'll have the same issues as we had in 2.1.

[Marianno]

Thanks Uliq, as I was wondering the true reason behind the grand scheme of the difference between WAR vs PLD. Tbh I chose WAR tank because I like being able to do some dmg while still tanking lol, however, false tanking the WAR looks. That also explains why the WAR has less def buffs and more str/hp buffs. A classic example was tested out was against the watch wyvern in SV hard mode. I noticed that those enemies use a move called "Deadly Drive". IT hits PLD less hard and hits WAR hard but because of WAR high hp pool, it seems miniscule. This makes me wonder as to what new abilities the level cap increase will bring for the WAR come expansion. I hope that SE give this job more def buffs. But then again that could probably make job OP and its just wishful thinking. Thanks for the responses everyone, I really appreciate it.

[Alphras]

The 25% heal buff from defiance on i110 isn't enough compared to how healers heal plds. 2 heals pld at full or almost. 2 heals war at half or a little above. This is vs the fact the pld gets hit way softer then war due to auto dr, which increases as level and armor increase vs 20% health increase which only increase with armor. There is also block percentage of pld which increases as pld's ilvl increase and/or gains a new shield vs parry and dodge which only increases as ilvl increase. Wars main reason as MRD is long forgotten and we are left with basically a shit class due to the indecision of Developers and their ability to not think ahead. We had this problem already and in one or two updates, when pld gains a new shield and enemies have to hit harder to make up for it, we'll have the same issues as we had in 2.1.

Wow. This is so wrong i don't even know where to start ...

[Uliq]

Wow. This is so wrong i don't even know where to start ...

you say wrong and people agree but you have to start somewhere. The only thing I can see being wrong to any level is the first statement. As for pld getting hit way softer, try this. Put a war and pld in brayflox and pull full mobs, see which last longer. due to CD's and auto reduction, plus shield block % of PLD it wins. The amount of time a pld has without a CD buff is what exactly? 15 seconds if hollowed ground is ready 25 seconds if not. this is rotating Rampert, Foresight, Sentinel, Bulwark, and Hollowed ground. PLD can simply skim through his Defensive rotation so the times he's down is during auto attacks or soft hits. Wars downtime is much more encumber-some to the point war holds IB till big hits are coming. So PLD does get hit way softer then war. This is tank convo leave your heals out of it. Wars skill only counts with skilled healers, else your dead.

PLD block percentage does increase as his parry skill increase which increase as his armor and shield increases. Hence the Block Chance And Block Strength so not wrong. War only increases in parry as his strength and parry skill increases, dodge is static because no dex gear. True? As MRD you tanked by damage, able to maintain a constant influx of health at a Regen rate if keeping Bloodbath active and rotating storm path. As a Warrior you can not do this because Bloodbath doesn't add up because 25% reduction in damage, and the trade off in dps stats for tank stats stops the use of Second wind, which btw heals my i96 lancer for over double of my Warrior. MRD forgotten. What's wrong?

[Alphras]

What's wrong?

Pretty much everything you wrote, but i don't have the nerve to pull up the eHp and healing calculations again ... maybe someone else will post it.

If you are hoping for a WAR buff have fun waiting, since PLD are WAR are pretty balanced.

@Topic: Why is everyone so set on being the MT? In many fights the OT has more mechnics to handle and is actually the more demanding and fun role.

[Uliq]

I don't want a buff cept a better, more balanced seperation in armor. And lots of things that work in theory don't work in reality. The damage mitigation of pld is much larger then the heal buff warrior gets, and this mitigation will only increase as gear increases. PLD CDs also 1up warrior CDs in mitigation due to duration if you haven't noticed, but apparently I'm talking to myself, or you can't read passed the first sentence.

As for theory. War 2.1 theory was flawless and they revamped war. The theories on parry that people argued in 2.1 vs war were also flawless but look what people spouting now.