Beef between WAR and PLD tanks

[Warrlordd]

So much bad in this thread right now, you gotta stop.

Seriously though, @OP from what you said you KNEW it would be this way when you levelled your warrior. How about you embrace the OT role, become an effective and positive addition to your group. Instead of being that warrior how pretends he is a paladin.

Or you could role paladin if u want to MT. Genius, right?

P.S why are we still talking about titan ex? That fight has cobwebs on it, its so old. IIRC, there is no MT or OT as tanking is shared equally, with PLD doing extra effort on heart phase and warrior doing extra on adds.

You Sir, must get GOOD instead of thinking its okay to be bad!

[MythToken]

Pretty much everyone who has posted anything other than WAR = PLD in this thread is just wrong.

MT = PLD and WAR
OT = PLD and WAR

The difference is knowing when its a good idea to switch roles. ie Levi Ex would be dumb to have the WAR on OT since he cant stun the adds as effectively.

[Surian]

Im not sure what you are talking about, but all the math has proven that they are exactly = in the amount of damage they take and the amount they do.

And i just gave you the actual math that tells you that it's not. It's an exchange of 7% more damage taken, for 25% more HP and 20% more healing. How is that "exactly the same"?

But alright, how about this then. Look at all the things that Warrior has...


- It has all the ability effects Paladin has combined unto its own abilities, but those abilities themselves have their own Warrior-Exclusive effects on top of that as well which Paladin do not have.

Storm Path = Rage of Halone + Absorb HP for 50% of the damage done
Inner Beast = Rampart + Absorb HP for 100% of damage done, also circumvents Defiance it's damage reduction.
Foresight = Convalescence (20% defense for 20% cured, roughly the same)
Vengeance = Sentinel
Holmgang = Hallowed Ground + draw in and bind to prevent people from running.

- Enchainment lets it circumvent the damage reduction from Defiance.
- The Potency on all of it's spammable attacks is rediculous. 280 to 300 points of potency on things they can throw out every 5 seconds if they so desired.
- 50% HP Absorbs from Storm's Path they basicly spam every few seconds regardless.
- Insane AoE attacks with high potency. Which are spammable opposed to the 25 second wait on a Paladin's Circle of Scorn with a measely 100 potency which has no enmity bonus :/
- Warrior has a lot of self heals that arent laughable like a Paladin's 200 HP Cures costing 133 MP from Conjurer sub.
- Warriors have Lower TP costs on all their abilities now.
- They have Shorter Recasts.
- Do not have Stun on the Global Cooldown, which is amazing for them allowing them to stun without having to stop their combo-rotation.
- They have Higher Critical Hitrates, but ok, fair enough.
- They have Longer Duration Buffs.

What does Paladin have going for it?

- 10% more damage blocked on sentinel for 10 seconds, every 3 whole minutes. (opposed to warriors getting 30% for 15 seconds)
- Insignificant blocks from a shield that happen less than 10% of the time, blocking 20% at most when you're using a i100+ shield. Great, a whole 2% reduction overal. And that's asuming most attacks arent non-physical and thus unblockable, which most boss attacks are. Even in the best of circumstances (read: fairytale-land) if you could get a delusional 30% blockrate, it would still translate in a mere 6% reduction overal, which still wouldnt even come close to the things Warrior brings to the table.

[Kyana]

1. However, you neglected the ability to block that is quite a damage reduction itself. I know it's not 100% but still having this 30% hits blocked (or more with bulwark) gives you a way more damage reduction.

2. WAR can overaggro PLD with ease, and hold the targets on their arse with ease as well.

1. True. The sad thing is that Shield Swipe has no enmity multiplier. That would be great for enmity, TP and dmg.
2. Also true. Usually I can do 1 enmity combo with WAR and then keep using the Storm's combos without a problem*. PLD on the other hand...well, it's not like PLD got alot of choices anyway. It's RoH combo unless you need MP.

*against ilvl95+ DDs in both cases

[Machetazzo]

Funny how math comes up with different results in favour of all options (WAR better, PLD better, equal) in all those threads about tanks.
And they told us back in days at the school that the math is not subjective

Beside, this game is so well balanced at the moment that you can do any content with any class configuration of the party, that those little beefs between people are rather amusing. People should focus on trying to improve their gameplay, not on strength of their class. Even if any class would be slightly more powerful, the great rule would remain the same - Good player will outclass a bad player

[Uliq]

Wow. This is so wrong i don't even know where to start ...

you say wrong and people agree but you have to start somewhere. The only thing I can see being wrong to any level is the first statement. As for pld getting hit way softer, try this. Put a war and pld in brayflox and pull full mobs, see which last longer. due to CD's and auto reduction, plus shield block % of PLD it wins. The amount of time a pld has without a CD buff is what exactly? 15 seconds if hollowed ground is ready 25 seconds if not. this is rotating Rampert, Foresight, Sentinel, Bulwark, and Hollowed ground. PLD can simply skim through his Defensive rotation so the times he's down is during auto attacks or soft hits. Wars downtime is much more encumber-some to the point war holds IB till big hits are coming. So PLD does get hit way softer then war. This is tank convo leave your heals out of it. Wars skill only counts with skilled healers, else your dead.

PLD block percentage does increase as his parry skill increase which increase as his armor and shield increases. Hence the Block Chance And Block Strength so not wrong. War only increases in parry as his strength and parry skill increases, dodge is static because no dex gear. True? As MRD you tanked by damage, able to maintain a constant influx of health at a Regen rate if keeping Bloodbath active and rotating storm path. As a Warrior you can not do this because Bloodbath doesn't add up because 25% reduction in damage, and the trade off in dps stats for tank stats stops the use of Second wind, which btw heals my i96 lancer for over double of my Warrior. MRD forgotten. What's wrong?

[Mordermi]

Kitru. Where art thou? I'm sure you have a readily available document from which to copy and paste to correct the misinformation in this thread.

[Alphras]

What's wrong?

Pretty much everything you wrote, but i don't have the nerve to pull up the eHp and healing calculations again ... maybe someone else will post it.

If you are hoping for a WAR buff have fun waiting, since PLD are WAR are pretty balanced.

@Topic: Why is everyone so set on being the MT? In many fights the OT has more mechnics to handle and is actually the more demanding and fun role.

[Uliq]

I don't want a buff cept a better, more balanced seperation in armor. And lots of things that work in theory don't work in reality. The damage mitigation of pld is much larger then the heal buff warrior gets, and this mitigation will only increase as gear increases. PLD CDs also 1up warrior CDs in mitigation due to duration if you haven't noticed, but apparently I'm talking to myself, or you can't read passed the first sentence.

As for theory. War 2.1 theory was flawless and they revamped war. The theories on parry that people argued in 2.1 vs war were also flawless but look what people spouting now.

[Traek]

Pretty much everyone who has posted anything other than WAR = PLD in this thread is just wrong.

MT = PLD and WAR
OT = PLD and WAR

The difference is knowing when its a good idea to switch roles. ie Levi Ex would be dumb to have the WAR on OT since he cant stun the adds as effectively.

This.

Don't listen to the others OP. They know not which they speak. A simple search of old debates has more then enough proof. We aren't obligated to post old information everytime someone clueless comes in posting false information as facts.