Beef between WAR and PLD tanks

[Marianno]

DPS accessories in cases of Titan EX because in fights with titan I actually like being an off tank. Less stressful in my opinion and I do like killing stuff lol

[Marianno]

Thanks Uliq, as I was wondering the true reason behind the grand scheme of the difference between WAR vs PLD. Tbh I chose WAR tank because I like being able to do some dmg while still tanking lol, however, false tanking the WAR looks. That also explains why the WAR has less def buffs and more str/hp buffs. A classic example was tested out was against the watch wyvern in SV hard mode. I noticed that those enemies use a move called "Deadly Drive". IT hits PLD less hard and hits WAR hard but because of WAR high hp pool, it seems miniscule. This makes me wonder as to what new abilities the level cap increase will bring for the WAR come expansion. I hope that SE give this job more def buffs. But then again that could probably make job OP and its just wishful thinking. Thanks for the responses everyone, I really appreciate it.

[Uliq]

Didn't mean to just blurt crap but I'm tired of hearing about PLD vs WAR. I love WAR to death for what the concept is supposed to be but I can't see the way they buffing it being any different then what happened before WAR update. I'm liking the differences in tank armors now that they are building more DPS type tank armors but it's not going to help wars defenses any so it's pointless, less they pushing WAR to be more OT, which it really is.

[Alphras]

The 25% heal buff from defiance on i110 isn't enough compared to how healers heal plds. 2 heals pld at full or almost. 2 heals war at half or a little above. This is vs the fact the pld gets hit way softer then war due to auto dr, which increases as level and armor increase vs 20% health increase which only increase with armor. There is also block percentage of pld which increases as pld's ilvl increase and/or gains a new shield vs parry and dodge which only increases as ilvl increase. Wars main reason as MRD is long forgotten and we are left with basically a shit class due to the indecision of Developers and their ability to not think ahead. We had this problem already and in one or two updates, when pld gains a new shield and enemies have to hit harder to make up for it, we'll have the same issues as we had in 2.1.

Wow. This is so wrong i don't even know where to start ...

[wicked-one]

In my first Opinion, thus both Jobs are full capable of Tanking any content and are quite balanced (while truly two different styles of tanking).

In some situations one will be better, but not overall...

we do T8 for example with a warrior Tank, I don´t understand why exactly (have only PLD to 50), our Tanks agree that a WAR is better to Aggro the Dreadnought...

For Titan EX i would prefer a WAR as OT for the Add phase (aggroing + dps vs. PLDs Flash)...
A WAR would also benefit more from a SCH, mainly for the 25% Heal Skill.

But as stated before, when you know your job, both will do an alsmost equal good job - and no single need to beef about..

[Kyana]

Yes both tank classes can tank.
But if you have a WAR and a PLD in a party, most groups will prefer the PLD to be the MT and take the harder hits.
This doesn't mean WAR isn't cappable of doing the same, but WAR has more to offer than PLD.

WAR deals more damage and it can keep 2 debuffs on the mob, which reduce incomming damage and increase the dmg dealt by WAR and PLD, without generating more hate than a normal DD.
The only thing PLD can do when being OT is dealing a bit more dmg than usual, cast Stoneskin on the other tank and use its enmity combo to apply RoH debuff (usually you don't want to spam enmity combos as OT).

Titan EX is a good example for this, because while both tanks are cappable of filling both roles, the WAR has an easier time gathering and keeping aggro from adds.
WAR+PLD in a party seems like the perfect combination.

If you are a WAR and have a PLD as tank partner, don't go on an ego-trip and try to be MT if the PLD is better suited to do the job.
This only applies to situations where gear and skill of both tanks are about the same level of course.

And yes. I play both tanks.

[MythToken]

They are exactly the same in every way. Thier DPS = the same, Their ability to MT = the same, Their Ability to OT = the same.

The only difference is in how they are set up to take damage (which both are = they just do it different.) And a few minor abilities and tools that make them better suited for certain fights.

But every single fight in the game can be done with PLD/PLD WAR/WAR PLD/WAR

At the end of the day, they are roughly the same, and neither one is better than the other.

[Surian]

I'm sorry, but any sort of mitigation diffirences havent been true since 2.1. Damage taken is virtually identical, but Warrior has so many more tools and damage dealing/enmity grabbing things available to it.

With 25% more HP and 20% more healing, combined with Inner Beast's 13% overal reduction (has 6s -20% on what is pretty much a 9 second recast) that MORE than equals Shield Oath. I say equals since i dont want to step on anyone's toes, but between you and me it blows Shield Oath completely out of the water. Math-wise it means that warriors get hit for 87%, while paladins get hit for 80%, so you're exchanging 7% more damage taken for 25% more HP and 20% more healing. That's rediculous.

The thing that happens is that they see a Warrior with 7000 HP and a Paladin with 7000 HP, and they see the warrior is doing worse.
(pro-tip: That would be i70 gear on the Warrior opposed to i90 on a Paladin to hit that HP)

Warrior really is rediculously more powerful than a Paladin at equal gear levels.

[MythToken]

I'm sorry, but any sort of mitigation diffirences havent been true since 2.1. Damage taken is virtually identical, but Warrior has so many more tools and damage dealing/enmity grabbing things available to it.

With 25% more HP and 20% more healing, combined with Inner Beast's 13% overal reduction (has 6s -20% on what is pretty much a 9 second recast) that MORE than equals Shield Oath. [/U]

Im not sure what you are talking about, but all the math has proven that they are exactly = in the amount of damage they take and the amount they do.

[silvach]

Warrior really is rediculously more powerful than a Paladin at equal gear levels.

Warriors have more tools to have fun with. We are just pushing 3 buttons and clicking on cool-downs. However, you neglected the ability to block that is quite a damage reduction itself. I know it's not 100% but still having this 30% hits blocked (or more with bulwark) gives you a way more damage reduction. However, in my opinion, they should add DEFENCE to Shields so PLD would be really more "tanky" tanks. At current stage the only thing that makes them more durable is the block chance - but this is something no one can predict (especially healers) so everyone have to act as if the block was not there at all.

WAR can overaggro PLD with ease, and hold the targets on their arse with ease as well. PLD have to sometimes struggle, but WAR just push their Berserk, hit with Steel Cyclone, Butcher's combo, unchained, butcher's combo and Flash when Berserk debuff hits him. Try to overaggro that. good luck. I'm playing with my friend WAR and we are doing trials together, he tells me that he can crit for 900 with Butcher's when I can crit for ~~350 with RoH. This is tremendous difference as both skills got same enmity multiplier. Oh yes our weapons are not the same, his weapon is +6 damage more. But don't tell me I will be able to do 900 crits with RoH

edit: due to the recent changes Steel Cyclone is best enmity generator in game. 200 potency, 3x multiplier applying the Defiance it makes 6x multiplier with no damage reduction debuff. Nothing can hit harder and nothing can do more enmity.