Red Mage: The one class that will be impossible to impliment

[Duelle]

Anyways, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance DID have a Red Mage Class. So while I was wrong about the first Final Fantasy Tactics, I wasn't wrong about Final Fantasy Tactics as a whole...

*twitch* There's no such thing as Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.

Red mage is impossible to be implemented because :

-If they make it a fencer with spell, people will whine.
-If they make it a FFXI supporter way, people will whine.

There's an easy answer to that. You make it a magic fencer => the people from the melee camp, who have been urinated on by FFXI's developers for several years now, will finally have somewhere to go where they don't have to deal with FFXI's attempts at making cheap imitations to quiet them down. The people that want to play buffbot/refresh-whore/"support" can just go play FFXI. They're even adding more enfeebles to the job there just to show how much they are not listening to the melee camp. Win-win for SE and the RDM community. It might even give birth to funny memes of XI's RDM vs XIV's RDM.

Because the definition of a RDM in FF11 was "Power's it self and sword up to a godly level using both light and dark magic to aid in it's efforts"(it's something like this any ff pre 2012 will tell you this). However you would see people get in arguments when a rdm would try to do anything other then heal, or cast debuffs.

That's more due to how the job was designed and what it was balanced around. XI had several issues, including the fact that they intentionally made RDM and BRD a source of MP regen, which when combined with the game's lack of healers outside of WHM AND the rush people had to get to 75 ASAP meant anyone with an MP bar that was not dealing damage equal to 2K+ spiral hells was instantly not worthy of a DPS slot and should just sub WHM and heal. The MP battery thing simply made it worse because a RDM became most beneficial to a group healing and spamming refresh. So you had people that wanted their MP batteries and healers to stay where they were, RDMs that loved the easy invites and pull they had in parties (AKA princess Red Mages) insulting the guys that wanted more out of the job since, you know, RDM is a guy with a sword that uses magic.

[Aethergoggles]

Hmm I was thinking about that whilst reading this thread, the way gear sets work right now you can only have one primary stat, so for red mage you coulf only have Int or Mind or Str... if the red mage had one of these stats, for instance Mind, you could esily switch to damage dealing by having cleric stance as a cross class ability, and then as for the physical attacks, what if they had a new spell that applies their intelligence to their physical attacks, something like an enchanted blade.

Though I would see red mage wearing heavier armour, so would likely end up melee dps gear, leading to my above conundrum again, unless it had two new stances, one that switches str and int, and one that switches str and mind.

[Duelle]

the trouble with red mage it's directly linked at how they have make the game soo far.
- caster and physical class will use 2 different stats

This can be solved in part by having a trait that does some stat converting (assuming you were to make Fencer the base class with DEX as a primary stat, you could make it so that it gets some magic attack per point of Dex but not as much as dedicated mage stats; alternatively you could give rapiers inherent magic attack).

- spell have casting time for them forcing to a semi static gameplay for the caster, the melee in counter part need to be extremely mobile.

Make their DPS model reliant on combos or procs to give RDM the opportunity to instant cast stuff as part of their damage rotation. The Art of War mechanic is a pretty good place to start. Alternatively you could have the RDM's fencing skills combo into spells on the condition it makes said spells instant cast when combo'd into.

- enspell will have small to no effect since the elemental resistance are not working like in other FF (if you hit a fire monster with ice it will not take double damage) then why use a thunder,fire,ice,wind... whatever the element you want since exept add damage it will have the same damage. if they add effect like slow/stop/poison/... most of the boss are immune to most effect... rending one more time the spell worstless.

I'll grant you this, since for example I'm more partial to enfire whereas a friend of mine was partial to enblizzard, and with the way things are designed it wouldn't be possible without wasting ability slots.

- the role, one jobs can't do multiple role and since we don't have a support role, what they will do for the redmage? damage dealer? what the point to get the white magic healing capacity?

Like it or not, a role has to be chosen. I'm partial to DPS because of how I think a RDM would work in this game. The "white magic" in this case would come in the form of utility spells.

pss: by the way, i will not be surprise if they do something drastic like make the jobs for musketeer be redmage, change him weapon for a gun will solve a loooooot of trouble.

Bite. Your. Tongue.

[Urielparadox]

That's more due to how the job was designed and what it was balanced around. XI had several issues, including the fact that they intentionally made RDM and BRD a source of MP regen, which when combined with the game's lack of healers outside of WHM AND the rush people had to get to 75 ASAP meant anyone with an MP bar that was not dealing damage equal to 2K+ spiral hells was instantly not worthy of a DPS slot and should just sub WHM and heal. The MP battery thing simply made it worse because a RDM became most beneficial to a group healing and spamming refresh. So you had people that wanted their MP batteries and healers to stay where they were, RDMs that loved the easy invites and pull they had in parties (AKA princess Red Mages) insulting the guys that wanted more out of the job since, you know, RDM is a guy with a sword that uses magic.

I'm talking original release rdm your talking 3 years after launch rdm.

[Alise]

*twitch* There's no such thing as Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.
There's an easy answer to that. You make it a magic fencer => the people from the melee camp, who have been urinated on by FFXI's developers for several years now, will finally have somewhere to go where they don't have to deal with FFXI's attempts at making cheap imitations to quiet them down. The people that want to play buffbot/refresh-whore/"support" can just go play FFXI. They're even adding more enfeebles to the job there just to show ho

Nope, that isn't the win answer. You can't call them to go back to play FFXI, and that is it.
it is wrong to judge one side correct and one side wrong. Else they may ask you to go back to play different game or something similar.

Especially, SE, it is their lose to make either side of customers angry. They probably have to weight either they will angry more people by not releasing it, by releasing it. They also have to weight their resource they need to spend before implement whether the amount of spending is worth on the amount of angry customers they can solve or not. Instead of releasing RMD, they could alternatively release another job all together that doesn't need to worry with angry customers. For example, releasing something else that people would want it, and won't debate much over it.

[Haibel]

for those people that weren't in 1.0 alpha. The game was .dat mined and found reference to a bunch of classes not yet in game. Fencer being one of them.
on top of that, all the spells removed from THM could be used for Rdm or Drk.

[Krisan]

As has already been said, it's possible to still do RDM. It just might not be RDM as we're entirely used to it.
One thing to keep in mind is that in FFXI, RDM had the en-series spells.. Enaero, Enblizzard, Enfire, etc.. Which enchanted their raiper's with an elemental magic. They also had access to the Spikes line of spells - which we don't currently have in XIV. Things like Blaze Spikes, Frost Spikes, Shock Spikes, etc.. Which veiled them in an elemental magic and caused enemies to be countered when hit. We also still don't have direct spells that can Blind, Slow, or Paralyze enemies, only additional effects on some attacks that do this for a short time.. RDM could honestly end up as an enfeebling Tank, or possibly as a Melee mage - as in squishy but a high damage dealer on the frontlines.

Likewise for anyone who thinks this sounds too much like Spell Fencer\Rune Knight.. keep in mind that in spite of that, they managed to make both it AND Geomancer work somehow in FFXI. All three share a lot of principles in XI, yet play pretty darn differently.. So yeah, I'm pretty sure Yoshida and his team could cook us up a lot of different things. It's also worth keeping in mind that none of the CURRENT spells and skills or even how the system as a whole is setup is set in stone. They could honestly turn the whole thing on its head later, and make things much more interesting for every class when it comes time for an expansion or balancing update.

[Jacost]

How about having it switch between phases, like the THM/BLM? In it's casting phase, it either spams spells or uses a melee-style combo (who better to apply combos to spells?). When out of MP, it switches to using melee attacks that restore MP on successful hits. Or have it's physical attacks (or a different physical attack) apply a stacking buff up to a point, which powers up the next spell it casts. There are any number of ways to make an interplay between melee and magic attacks on a single class.

[Nero]

I'm glad you do, but my point is that RDM is very possible. Enspells are pretty much the smartest thing SE ever added to the job that made sense for what it is (sword & magic hybrid). Since this is a trinity-based MMO you can't have a generalist because said generalist will basically be forced into cure-bitch/buff-whore roles or simply not be used in the content that matters. All you can do is build off the melee+magic thing.

Swords had a suggestion, as did Ramsey, as did Martha as did I; I'm just praying SE bothered to read one of those suggestions and took what they liked from it.

Let's not forget that Yoshi did mention RDM as a Job he would like to implement and also things like En-Spells are allready in the Game. RDM is possible in FFXIV with a couple tweaks i think it could turn into a really nice Job to play with.

They also had access to the Spikes line of spells - which we don't currently have in XIV. Things like Blaze Spikes, Frost Spikes, Shock Spikes, etc.. Which veiled them in an elemental magic and caused enemies to be countered when hit.

Not available to Classes/Jobs, but still in the Game tho.

[Karnyboy]

I thought red makes could elementaly enhance their weapon? Would that not be a decent focus of the class in an MMO? Make them a dps that can use basic white/black skills that even end game could be useful but not necessity.