Red Mage: The one class that will be impossible to impliment

[TeganLaron]

if you wanted Raging Strikes, Archer has to be grinded.

Level 4 isn't much of a grind really is it? Lol.

On topic though, they can easily just give it WHM/BLM spells, just not the strongest form as you said. They could even just give it a larger pool of cross class skills than other jobs to make up for a lack of unique abilities.

[Morningstar1337]

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I said that ACN are the closest to RDM (along with THM).

First off I'm the only one I know who explicity wnats a Spellfencer class, and I though the gimmick of the red mage was the ability to use both Black and white magic (exclusibf classless games like KH or FFXII, those allow unlimited access to both schools of magic)

You have a point there, personally I think the Spellfencer/Magic Knight/Spellblade/Fencer/whatever class would the closest they can get (and only if they can get cure spells)

Level 4 isn't much of a grind really is it? Lol.

On topic though, they can easily just give it WHM/BLM spells, just not the strongest form as you said. They could even just give it a larger pool of cross class skills than other jobs to make up for a lack of unique abilities.

That could actually work. But the trade off would be having to grind 3/4 classes to get the most out of one.

Also I just used Raging Strikes as an example. anyone who actually thinks getting to 4 is a grind are just lazy.

[Alistaire]

Setting a reminder to myself to bump this thread when they make it.

[Tharian]

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Your analysis of what a Red Mage is, is rather dated. That is what a Red Mage WAS, back in Final Fantasy ONE. It hasn't been that since at least Final Fantasy Tactics (the first one). And it definitely ceased being that entirely as soon as Final Fantasy XI came out.

Also you say you want Spellfencer, but suddenly decide that Red Mage is impossible? You can't make one impossible without the other also being impossible. They both access Black and White Magic in the same manner, they just access different spells from both disciplines. While we are banning classes that use both White and Black Magic equally, we might as well also ban the Twincaster and the Sage, as those both have access to both types of magic as well.

Let's continue the first train of thought. As of Final Fantasy XI, while the Red Mage had access to Tier IV Black Magic, and certain Tier V White Magic (where as the Black Mage had access to Tier V Black Magic and was able to cast Ancient Magic, and the White Mage had access to all Tier V White Magic), the Red Mage had a unique repertoire of spells that neither the White Mage or Black Mage had access to. These were the En-Spells (Enaero, Enwater, Enblizzard, etc...), and the Spikes Spells (the only other class that could use any of these spells was the Summoner, who only got access to them via his or her Summons, and only for a short time), not to mention the ALMIGHTY Phalanx spell.

What Phalanx was, is a spell that was unique to the Summoner and Red Mage (the Summoner only had access to it after obtaining the Diabolos Summon, which was really rather difficult to do if you weren't prepared for it). Phalanx was a spell that basically absorbed a huge chunk of damage. The damage absorbed was generally speaking about equal to what could be absorbed by a standard Stoneskin spell. The thing about it though was that it could be applied at the same time as Stoneskin, meaning that you could have Stoneskin, Blink (or Utsusemi if you are a RDM/NIN, or NIN/RDM), and Phalanx up all at the same time. This basically led to a near indestructible character for as long as those spells are in effect. Add to that your En-Spell of Choice, and Ice Spikes (a spike spell that causes a chance to paralyze your foe each time said foe strikes you) and your Red Mage effectively became a 1-man killing squad.

Basically, Red Mage is no longer simply a weaker hybrid of two classes. Rather it is now what is more commonly referred to in the oldest Role Playing Game on the Planet as the Fighter/Mage Cross-Class character.

If even a portion of that is used as a basis for FFXIV's Red Mage, then I will be happy!

Level 4 isn't much of a grind really is it? Lol.

No, I think she meant Quelling Strikes (the one that reduces enmity gain, and is actually required for high level BLM's and SMN's), not Raging Strikes. Level 34 is a bit more of a Grind, don't'ya think?

[Morningstar1337]

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Somehow I knew this thread would get some controversy. I apologize, my pror FF experience conssted of the later titles (XII, then X) as well as KH, nether one of those had classes. I also played Bravely Default (in fact That's how I knew of the Spellfencer and other classes) But I thought the magic was the red mage's focus.

As for the Spellfencer comparison. I like to point out that there are the En- spells and they were different from the normal spells, the Spellfencer class (again My only experience with a SE game with classes was BD) seem to lack healing spells.

Likewise my MMO history did not include XI. So I had no idea about the exclusive Phlanax OR the fact that they had En- spells (Not really much of an excuse though if XI was the game of origin for those spells)

I'm sorry for being ignorant about the Red mage in later games.

Also No, I meant Raging Strikes. In hindsight though quelling would have made a better analogy, but the point was that the combat classes seem to have spells that can only be learned by leveling a particular class, meaning that new abilities would need to be invented for the Red mage (This was before taking into account the support pool idea TenganLaron had or the evolution to "Spellfencer with healing spells" version you told me about)

[Tharian]

No, being able to use swords, slightly heavier armor than most mages, and magic, that is Red Mages focus. I have not played Bravely Default, my sole experience with the concept of a Spellfencer class that is not synonymous with the Red Mage class (as it was in Final Fantasy I) is from Final Fantasy XI, where-in the Spellfencer is actually called the Rune Fencer, and is in fact a Tank Class.

EDIT: Apparently FFXI's Rune Fencer also has access to Phalanx, which makes it by default the single most broken Tank Class that was originally designed to be a Tank Class in that game since it also gets Stoneskin and Blink... Unlike that game's Red Mage which was first a Mage Class that the players of the game co-opted into being a Solo-Tank.

[WellFooled]

Your analysis of what a Red Mage is, is rather dated. That is what a Red Mage WAS, back in Final Fantasy ONE. It hasn't been that since at least Final Fantasy Tactics (the first one). And it definitely ceased being that entirely as soon as Final Fantasy XI came out.

I came to post this same thought, but my inner Final Fantasy fanatic has to correct you. There were no Red Mages in Final Fantasy Tactics :x But excellent point! Carry on!

[Tharian]

I came to post this same thought, but my inner Final Fantasy fanatic has to correct you. There were no Red Mages in Final Fantasy Tactics :x But excellent point! Carry on!

Huh... you appear to be correct on this one... silly me. Though the Time Mage (god I feel silly just saying that Job's name in relation to anything other than Yu-Gi-Oh) or Calculator could conceivably qualify. Probably more so the Calculator than the Time Mage seeing as how the requirements to unlock the Calculator was to have a level 4 Priest, Level 4 Wizard, Level 3 Time Wizard, and Level 3 Oracle all on the same character.

[WellFooled]

Calculator could conceivably qualify.

Is it a bad thing that I want to derail this thread to discuss a Calculator job for FFXIV? :x

"OMG L2Dodge Landslides!"

"I can't dodge and multiply triple digits at the same time! Has to be one or the other! And I choose MATH!"

[Tharian]

Is it a bad thing that I want to derail this thread to discuss a Calculator job for FFXIV? :x

"OMG L2Dodge Landslides!"

"I can't dodge and multiply triple digits at the same time! Has to be one or the other! And I choose MATH!"

While that would indeed be epic, I think the fail of that would also be epic.

Anyways, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance DID have a Red Mage Class. So while I was wrong about the first Final Fantasy Tactics, I wasn't wrong about Final Fantasy Tactics as a whole...

And thank you by the way, for not saying "MATHS!" I can't stand people who spell it like that...