SMN a use for ifrit...

[kujowaltz]

This interests me on something actually. If they're going to take a look at Garuda later on and see how they can make it so that she is not the go-to pet at all times, Pet Switching might be an effective way to spice up the class....Once they separate the cooldown times for each pet's actions, switching your pets around during combat could make things pretty interesting.

Wow thank you, finally someone understands the point of my OP.

Allowing CDs on separate enkindle skills, making summon an aetherflow skill(removing mana cost) and using the benefits of multiple summons per dungeon instead of flat lining with one would be great. could you imagine a triple enkindle, during a rouse/spur/rs fester burn phase? makes my heart flutter

[Velox]

The suggestion I made a few months back was to add passive party-buffs to each primal according to type. These buffs would affect any party member in the vicinity of the primal.

Garuda = +5% magic damage
Ifrit = +5% physical damage
Titan = +5% defense
*Leviathan = +(depends on nature of egi)
*Ramuh = +(depends on nature of egi)
*Shiva = +(depends on nature of egi)

* = when the level cap is raised


With this set-up, a melee-heavy party would greatly benefit from a SMN using Ifrit (even if it gimps the SMN's own DPS, it would increase the party-dps as a whole). Of course, a caster-heavy party would still be best to use Garuda, but at least it wouldn't make Garuda the "best" choice 99% of the time.

I must stress that this is just an idea and may not be ideal nor balanced. It's mainly just something to use as a basis and can be adapted.

[Dyvid]

Well pets need a rework from the ground up. Silence and Stuns need to go to include SCH Selena's silence, give her a party stat boost buff. Each Egi needs a specific function; Single Target, AoE, and CC.

Garuda (AoE) -
Slipstream: Low AoE attack
Mistral Song: Group AoE Attack (Knockback)
Razor Plume: Group DoT
Contagion: Extend DoTs
Aerial Blast: Enkindle Move

Ifrit (Single Target) -
Burning Strike - Attack
Eruption - Attack (lowers Targets Attack)
Radiant Plume - Attack (Egi HP Restores 50% of damage dealt)
Flaming Crush - Attack (Lowers Targets Defense)
Inferno - Enkindle move

Titan (Crowd Control) -
Rock Buster - Cone Attack (Enmity)
Mountain Buster - AoE Attack (Enmity + Heavy)
Earthen Ward - Def Buff
Weight of Land - AoE Attack (Enmity + Bind)
Earthen Fury - Enkindle move

As for the 3.0 and beyond instead of replacing Summon 1, 2, and 3 to Ramuh, Levi, and Shiva change them into a spell that does a special move and goes away. I'm sure lore wise the Allagan found a way to summon a purer form of the Primals essence but could only control them for a short time before they start to drain their masters aether thus the reason for a quick release.

The true reasoning is that it would get annoying over to time to just keep replace old Egi's with shiny new ones. Plus after 10 months people still want more classic looking summons. Not saying they should look exactly like the real primals or be that size but have something with more presence. Of course the spells would be diamond dust, tidal wave, and judgement bolt.

[tOnni3]

Oh, then this is about another Pet's overhoul thread D;
It took 8 pages to have somebody figure out.

[Dyvid]

Oh, then this is about another Pet's overhoul thread D;
It took 8 pages to have somebody figure out.

Well the test have been done over and over. While the margin isn't that great, Garuda nudges ahead of Ifrit in dps. It's a fact so obvious even the devs are changing the Egi's. If you really want to maximize Ifrit in a fight, use Rouse + Spur + Enkindle at the very start of the fight then swap him out with Garuda. Mainly because Ifrit Inferno is a slightly better dps than Garuda unless you need an AoE hit.

[Sleigh]

Well the test have been done over and over. While the margin isn't that great, Garuda nudges ahead of Ifrit in dps. It's a fact so obvious even the devs are changing the Egi's. If you really want to maximize Ifrit in a fight, use Rouse + Spur + Enkindle at the very start of the fight then swap him out with Garuda. Mainly because Ifrit Inferno is a slightly better dps than Garuda unless you need an AoE hit.

Are you taking into account WAR + MNK debuffs? Both of them buff Ifrit's DPS, and when buffed, the DPS increase over Garuda is quite noticeable. The biggest reason against using Ifrit in a lot of fights is the increased MP usage without Contagion, not necessarily Ifrit's mobility or the DPS loss from no Contagion.

[Dyvid]

Are you taking into account WAR + MNK debuffs? Both of them buff Ifrit's DPS, and when buffed, the DPS increase over Garuda is quite noticeable. The biggest reason against using Ifrit in a lot of fights is the increased MP usage without Contagion, not necessarily Ifrit's mobility or the DPS loss from no Contagion.

And Garuda can take advantage if there is a Bard using Foe... We aren't really talking about those certain situation though, just baseline without any buffs from other classes or jobs.

[Sleigh]

And Garuda can take advantage if there is a Bard using Foe... We aren't really talking about those certain situation though, just baseline without any buffs from other classes or jobs.

I thought the topic was about a use for Ifrit. It's an odd way to compare the pets, baseline only; why not compare them how they actually play out with realistic teams and scenarios? Should BLM respec to Piety on the assumption they won't get SCH in the party, baseline only? Should you not take into account the BRD DPS buff DRG gives, or the caster DPS buff BRD gives? 99% of teams out there have a BRD, and a very, very large chunk of teams have both a WAR and MNK, so it's pretty realistic to compare them in what their reasonable can be rather than theoretical - theoretical on the other hand would be a 3 BRD comp playing Foe's non-stop for Garuda, or a no BRD comp to hamper Garuda. If you don't have WAR or MNK somehow then yes Ifrit has no point.

Our group's SMN has tested Ifrit in fights with WAR and MNK (and BRD playing Foe's, so Garuda and Ifrit both get the same conditions), and in some endgame fights like T6 and T8 it is in fact a 10-20 DPS increase if the debuffs are kept up since Ifrit does that much more damage over Foe's buffed Garuda + Contagion. All you have to do is Swiftcast Ifrit after your first Contagion and you're all set. It has the possibility of being stronger in T7 and T9 but there are other reasons to keep Garuda around in those fights from a convenience standpoint. If you've tested those fights with both Garuda and Ifrit and got a different result, by all means share.

[Dyvid]

Well from what the OP was originally writing, I am assuming that he was trying to find a use for Ifrit in day to day events, not specific fights and builds. As you pointed out Ifrit does have use when conditions are right but only then. This is why I feel the base pet design needs to be revamped. Most fights that actually require a stun or silence, pet stuns are a hindrance rather than an asset. Titan lacks the enmity generation power to become an emergency tank when things go bad (I've tried this a few times but didn't work well). When the debate comes to which is a better DPS to use in every day activities, Garuda win.

I do think it would a good idea to update the original post to state which fights and situation that Ifrit is good for so new comers know.

[tOnni3]

Yesterday raiding, I tried to use Ifrit-Egi.

T6 :
Dps is significantly increase from using Garuda-Egi (a War present).
I finally dealt over 300 dps for this turn. Plus I didn't have to bother save aether stack, contagion
to maximize RS usage, no need to micro manage whatsoever (except move him away to avoid boss's cleave).

T7 :
I still can't find what kill my Ifrit-Egi cuz I was busy kiting
(may be Tail swipe from adds or boss's cleave when tank moved), so at the end I switched back to Garuda-Egi.

T8 :
100% static fight with Mnk and War presented. Ifrit is clearly a winner.

T9 :
Not yet try using Ifrit-Egi but pretty sure it is viable if it can survive Nael's skills.

PS. In dungeons or open world, I don't think it is matter using Garuda-Egi or Ifrit-Egi.
Unless in SR, contagion + bane is the best.