"I play the way I want" -Randomperson

[Gormogon]

you don't need a 3rd party program to see if a BLM is casting an "unorthodox" Rotation

Most of those people wouldn't know if it was an "unorthodox" rotation if there wasn't a program that allowed to point it out.

[Gelesto]

Most of those people wouldn't know if it was an "unorthodox" rotation if there wasn't a program that allowed to point it out.

If someone is ignoring their procs, neglecting key class traits (thundercloud/river of blood etc) and using random attacks in random orders - don't need a program to see that, just eyes.

[Gormogon]

If someone is ignoring their procs, neglecting key class traits (thundercloud/river of blood etc) and using random attacks in random orders - don't need a program to see that, just eyes.

So unless you play the class/job you wouldn't know.

Also I've played with many horrible BLM's I don't go ballistic because they don't play like gods.

[Gelesto]

Also I've played with many horrible BLM's I don't go ballistic because they don't play like gods.

This thread wasn't about playing like a god but more about taking on advice from the group to help them become better thus helping the group and having them not throw the help back in the groups faces kicking up a storm about playing how they want to because they payed for their sub yadda yadda yadda

Edit : spelling mistake

[Ghishlain]

So unless you play the class/job you wouldn't know.

Maybe it's just me, but I like broadening my knowledge and there are some basics each DPS class needs to do to maintain "decent" DPS on a target (and you can check my lodestone, I don't have a physical DPS properly leveled yet)

DRG - Maintain Heavy Thrust
MNK - Maintain Greased Lightning III
BRD - Maintain Straight Shot and maintaining procs on the target
BLM - Maintaining Astral Fire III up time for as long as possible; making the proper changes to Umbral Ice for MP regeneration
SMN - Maintaining DoTs on the target for as long as possible; using Aetherflow charges for Fester (though Fester usage is indeed harder to notice without knowing the class more in depth)

Again, as I've said, I personally like broadening my knowledge of the game mechanics and dynamics, so some of these facts that may come second nature to myself may not be for anyone else, but I'd like to think this is a decent baseline for the majority of players.

Also I've played with many horrible BLM's I don't go ballistic because they don't play like gods.

No one but the most hardcore elite of elite expect people to play like Gods. They are expecting them to know their role + class/job well enough to help defeat mobs in a timely manner based on their gear score.

[Gormogon]

This thread wasn't about playing like a god

No one but the most hardcore elite of elite expect people to play like Gods. They are expecting them to know their role + class/job well enough to help defeat mobs in a timely manner based on their gear score.

you see, there is a difference in playing decently (as in just doing basic astral/umbral rotation) and pressing random buttons.

The moment you criticized you should expect people to end up taking the defensive, just like as I expected that comment I made about "play like gods" to get you on the defensive.

He's doing something and not nothing but then someone always has to ruin it because enemies don't drop like flies and bringing up "maximize rotation" or "max dps".

[Ghishlain]

The moment you criticized you should expect people to end up taking the defensive, just like as I expected that comment I made about "play like gods" to get you on the defensive.

He's doing something and not nothing but then someone always has to ruin it because enemies don't drop like flies and bringing up "maximize rotation" or "max dps".

You are taking things out of context.

Again, I reiterate

"No one but the most hardcore elite of elite expect people to play like Gods. They are expecting them to know their role + class/job well enough to help defeat mobs in a timely manner based on their gear score."

I personally play with a sub-optimal setup because it suits my play style. For example

-I main WHM and I use a Crit Build, regarded as the worst build possible for a WHM to play. I am planning to build a Thyrus Novous that is ACC > Crit. Will this affect my performance? YES. Can I compensate for this with my skill sets? Yes! Will I ever achieve 100% super God-like play? No, because I am intentionally hampering myself to suit myself. However, I am NOT hampering the people I play with because of this decision on my part because I can compensate for the sub-optimal gear selection.

-When I play BLM, I start my single target rotation with Thunder (Not Thunder II or Thunder III). Optimal rotation for BLM begins with Thunder II followed by standard fire rotation. I am intentionally going a sub-optimal route because I enjoy going into Astral Fire III as soon as possible. Using Thunder will allow me that 0.5s faster. I also go from Flare into Tranpose into Thunder into Fire III (usually not capping MP) to go back into my fire rotation. Again, sub optimal, but it suits my style and hardly hampers my play for the content I want to do.

However, what is being discussed in this topic is not SUB-OPTIMAL but SUB-AVERAGE. You need no parser to know when someone is playing sub-average. You may need some knowledge of other classes to help you understand what they are doing wrong. However, in some respects all you need to do is look at the enmity accumulated on a boss to know how well or poorly a player is doing in respect to the other DPS in a light party.

Now, this isn't to say there are other factors involved. One can basically glance at the HP levels of the two DPS to determine their gear score. If one BLM is at 4.2K HP and the other is at 3.2K HP, then you can tell that one BLM's left side piece far outweigh the others. But if two classes of similar ilvl are paired side by side and one has a very distinct enmity lead, then one can infer that the DPS in question is providing a heavier contribution to overall damage between the two.

And then, if both DPS are playing poorly, this can lead to death in certain instances (Demon Wall being one of the prime examples back at the onset of the game). No one is asking for maximum DPS, maximum epeen factor, "God-like playing". But people are expecting the DPS to know enough about their rotation to over come these hurdles. If you cannot even perform this, and these individuals are not willing to listen to advice (when presented nicely, poorly presented advice is an entirely different can of worms), then this particular individual is now hampering the time of at least three other individuals.

People are not asking for you to do MAXIMUM damage. People are stating that they wish to see you do damage that is considered normal and respectable for your role.

[Gormogon]

People are stating that they wish to see you do damage that is considered normal and respectable for your role.

Seeing as you're most likely not paying their subscription or have any sort of digital or real world ties with that person, it shouldn't matter.

Criticizing a person in-game in a dungeon due to expectations can lead the experience from going from bad to extremely horrible. If you wanna risk it by "giving your 2 cents" go ahead I wont stop you. Yet if it doesn't end up the way you wanted then one should realize that they made the situation worse and trying to play the blame game doesn't help. They are both at fault from my point of view.

[PrimeEvilPanda]

-snip-

Hi Gormogon, I might just ask: do you normally PUG all your instances and if so, have you ever come across a healer that has not kept the party up causing one or two wipes; or a tank that does not use his skills to keep aggro, thus causing the mobs to attack you consistently - and if so, how did you deal with this situation?

What I'm trying to highlight is that the posters in this subject are noting the BLM may/may not have been using all the "skills" provided for his job (either by just spamming one skill and ignoring the others) and thus hindering the run (and potentially causing a wipe).

Out of curiosity as well, could you please advise how you developed your BLM's rotation? Did you seek out information or were you advised by friends/party members?

[Gormogon]

Hi Gormogon, I might just ask: do you normally PUG all your instances and if so, have you ever come across a healer that has not kept the party up causing one or two wipes; or a tank that does not use his skills to keep aggro, thus causing the mobs to attack you consistently - and if so, how did you deal with this situation?

What I'm trying to highlight is that the posters in this subject are noting the BLM may/may not have been using all the "skills" provided for his job (either by just spamming one skill and ignoring the others) and thus hindering the run (and potentially causing a wipe).

Out of curiosity as well, could you please advise how you developed your BLM's rotation? Did you seek out information or were you advised by friends/party members?

1.) I use DF a lot. Sometimes I get queued up with bad players of whatever role or people that have or are met with connection issues. Yet it doesn't bother me. I take those situations and weaknesses into consideration and try to accommodate as best as possible. Lower my DPS if it's just a gear issue or try and/or burst as much as possible hoping the mob dies within the next few spells after getting aggro. Overall I'd rather keep trying to get it done than blame everyone in the group for their errors because it's unhealthy especially when it doesn't guarantee to fix the issue and can make it worse.

So

If tank disconnects and I know I'm about to pull aggro, as long as it isn't range I'll kite, spam scathe, juke with aetherial manipulation, use swiftcast if I have it for blizzard 1 and so on. If it is range then it's gonna be more tricky since juking doesn't do much and line of sight doesn't work, so mitigation and offhealing are my only alternatives and the best approach if there's another dps up.

Yet I don't expect the healer to optimize for the situation.

If healer disconnects or dies I know I can either keep DPSing and try and trust the tank to mitigate damage on his own by using his abilities, healing himself, and kiting or take into consideration that I'll have to off-heal.

Yet I don't expect the tank to optimize for the situation. What I posted about that situation is simply a judgement call I'll have to make.

If dps is bad, disconnects, or dies I'm confident on my dps to pull that weight so on that note I'm not worried and if they can be slept I would also have that option.

2.) For the most part, 1 good DPS can make up for another especially if he's ilvl 90 or higher ilvl'd in dungeons. It does make the run better if everyone's good but that luxury isn't a guarantee.

3.) I developed my BLM's rotation on my own since the concept behind rotation and min/max are not new to me, i grew up with that concept. I also spread the word behind double and triple flare before they were even a norm because they became more and more needed. Was I the original person behind them? I don't think so but the design was there and I wasn't abusing it either. To me those things are elementary. I did theorycrafting before, which personally I found it to be a waste of my time. Yet knowing a perfect rotation and knowing a min/max are rather pointless on their own. You have to be able to implement both and accommodate for inconsistencies on the fly based on any given situation. So in other words to gauge someones skill relies more than just parsing numbers because those numbers wont prepare you for inconsistencies and situational awareness.