I just wanted to point out a double standard...

[Vangl]

Um.. ok I can agree above statement. Again, I welcome dps meter.
But what my concern is then some people may say why no meter to show damage migrated and hp healed.
In this case how to explain to them there is not a double standard?

https://imgflip.com/i/9pcsk

[SarcasmMisser]

What is your actual mana and skill usage difference between a monk popping fists of earth during raid wide damage and not.

[Raikki]

You can parse the message log files the game outputs in your user directory to calculate DPS, too, though. Since doing that doesn't interact with the game itself in any way, how does that qualify as a TOS violation? I'm not saying that's what people are doing when they announce DPS, but if the same information can be obtained in a way that doesn't violate the TOS, then someone can't be known for sure to be breaking the TOS simply for being able to come up with those numbers.

[Ryans]

Do you look at the pet too to see if the pet is not just doing auto-attack?

Garuda does less damage if you let her do anything but auto-attack. Pets' auto-attack isn't an actual auto-attack, it's a skill that takes up the global cooldown for them so unless you are using the other skills manually to take advantage of their knockback/stun/aoe additional effects, you are being less efficient.

[ruskie]

I was subject to parsers myself. But so far it wasn't a bad experience. Most of the time it's mostly in joke runs/fun runs(or doing treasure maps as DoL/DoH mixed with others) and someone just goes this person did the most etc... Only had it used in a PF group once... was announced and my reaction was... if this leads to harrasement report. Turns out I was underperforming even with my best rotation by 15%(compared to others) - not sure if the parser was taking DoTs into account or not though at that time. But I wasn't being harrased about it. We tried a few times to see if it can be improved - I probably was the weakest geared at the time and I was saving my TP and CDs for the real burn phases and not just blowing all CDs on opening(which might account for a lower DPS).

Actually had a nice chat with that person after the failed tries with no hard feelings on either end - and they were trying to understand it.


There is a time and place for parsers. But in runs where people are already on edge for trying to do their best a parser can cause a split if people don't know each other well.

I believe a usable in game parser could be done by having it a vote option when entering a duty. Each person get's a popup for - do you wish to allow designated person to parse or not(with a pre-default set in settings). This way parties can allow this and also designate it to someone that actually has a clue about what they are doing with a parser.

[MeiUshu]

You seem to assume that people who are skilled and pay attention to numbers are 100% bad people who only do it to be elite.

Some nice people just like playing well and helping other people play. Not everyone is a horrible person who only cares about their e-peen.

Having a high DPS output does not automatically make you an elitist.

if you want to put it that way for your first sentence, yes..I woudl say so yes....if you that high of a dps what do you care what the other dps output is ?..manage yours and compensate the weakness you dont need to go and point it out how poor the other is with sarcasm and demeaning words and attitude..most peopel think they are not horrible towards others but ...unfortunately they are since all they do is kick the poor guy that may not even have a clue how to better his problem eh?

for the rest I agree with you and have said this much if you use a parser to check your output I dont care if you come to me and tell me I have a poor dps and dont tell what is wrong with it and where and kick me..how do you want me to call you other then that *horrible* word called elitist ?

Mei

[ispano]

Parsers won't tell you that someone is pausing between GCDs (if they do that's news to me).

Actually, they do indirectly. They can tell you how many actions someone took in a given timeframe. Now you do need to compare against someone else that should have the same uptime, like say if you had two bards.

They won't tell you that Garuda is on obey.

Actually it will. Garuda only uses Windblade when on Obey. If on Sic, she'll also use Aerial Slash, which against a single target lowers her DPS, if only slightly. Parsers give far more information than "Player X did Y DPS"

Um.. ok I can agree above statement. Again, I welcome dps meter.
But what my concern is then some people may say why no meter to show damage migrated and hp healed.
In this case how to explain to them there is not a double standard?

Actually, Parsers do that to a degree. They will show how much damage each and every attack against a tank did, if he used cooldowns or not. If he used Hallowed Ground, it will show attacks doing no damage. Healing is also in there. Now the log doesn't indicate overheal, so that's a bit more tricky to figure out. But these things are things Parsers have been doing since the earliest MMOs.

Again, parsers are much more than a simple "DPS meter"

[Viridiana]

if you want to put it that way for your first sentence, yes..I woudl say so yes....if you that high of a dps what do you care what the other dps output is ?..manage yours and compensate the weakness you dont need to go and point it out how poor the other is with sarcasm and demeaning words and attitude..most peopel think they are not horrible towards others but ...unfortunately they are since all they do is kick the poor guy that may not even have a clue how to better his problem eh?

for the rest I agree with you and have said this much if you use a parser to check your output I dont care if you come to me and tell me I have a poor dps and dont tell what is wrong with it and where and kick me..how do you want me to call you other then that *horrible* word called elitist ?

Mei

So, you can't separate the people who parse from the people who harass, and then insult people who parse by claiming they all mercilessly kick players without explaining anything? Sorry if I stop taking your opinion seriously at all. . .

[Massterchef]

"Turn 6. Runthrough and super slug. Must have 300 dps or kick"

The initiator of the PF would still kick people who he felt under-performed regardless if he had a parser or not and the standard would still be "Must have high dps or kick". This is one of many bad examples of a player you perceive to be toxic, having and expressing his high standards, not a parser turning someone into a toxic player.

I still have yet to see a compelling argument.

[MeiUshu]

So, you can't separate the people who parse from the people who harass, and then insult people who parse by claiming they all mercilessly kick players without explaining anything? Sorry if I stop taking your opinion seriously at all. . .

well if I had come accross to actual, I dont say *nice*, but if only *decent* people, I wouldnt be saying it right ? but unfortunately, the experience I had with those hasnt be the best ever in attitude, wording and actions...so for me saying that not everybody is bad when they use a parsers is just a non sense, when you use a parser is to compare yourself with others and when you see that others are poor DPSing compared to you, you have that feel of superiority and sense of of unfairness that takes over, since you have the fell that you do all the work and others dont, and even if you dont know why the DPS is low you going to *bomb* them with some nasty comments (and the like in between) and often then not some kicks, so I am afraid but wanting to believe that not all are bad when it comes to parsers is totally absurd. the only that arent are those that dont say anything and get on.

Mei