If I saw a monk constantly changing fists and letting GL drop I could tell right there he is doing bad damage, and if I was the healer id tell him straight up to knock that off he doesn't need to cripple his dps to save me healing 10%, especially when it's raid wide damage that is getting aoe healed anyway. If they want to help use a mantra.

Originally Posted by ispano

The thing you're missing is that players can keep these things up like you would expect them to to do good DPS. And then not do good DPS. There are things you cannot see. They might not have enough accuracy, and without inspecting their gear and doing the math, you might not know. They might be pausing longer between each GCD ability than they need to, and that time could only be a fraction of a second. Is Garuda on obey during a single target fight, since her multi hit ability lowers her DPS in that case?

I'll be the first to say not to harass someone. But they are part of the group, they need to be held accountable for their role in the group, just like the rest of us.

Exactly. Nearly every other MMO out there gives you or let's you measure your group's overall DPS.The "People might be harassed once every blue moon" is totally not a valid reason to prevent the pros of having a legit parser or SE's stance to change on 3rd party parser.

Originally Posted by Dwill

"People might be harassed once every blue moon" is totally not a valid reason to prevent the pros of having a legit parser or SE's stance to change on 3rd party parser.

Are you new to the MMO community? There is no might be, it's will be and it will be frequent. I've seen it plenty of times before SE officially gave word about parsers, early on people were verbally abusing other players right and left without abandon.

However, while I've never been on the receiving end of this abuse I hate to see it happen. People forget we are playing a game and let their emotions get the better of them.

Originally Posted by Wobi

Are you new to the MMO community? There is no might be, it's will be and it will be frequent. I've seen it plenty of times before SE officially gave word about parsers, early on people were verbally abusing other players right and left without abandon.

However, while I've never been on the receiving end of this abuse I hate to see it happen. People forget we are playing a game and let their emotions get the better of them.

It's funny you say that. I play WoW where everyone has a meter, and I see less elitism overall there than I do here.

Originally Posted by Althea

It's funny you say that. I play WoW where everyone has a meter, and I see less elitism overall there than I do here.

So if the FFXIV community has already proven themselves incapable of properly using 3rd party DPS meters why are we promoting them again? I'm all for helping out my fellow player play better but I've never seen them used to positive effect. Just gives the vitriolic players in the community more ammo at their disposal.

It's a matter of wording. Tell them that they're doing bad DPS because you see them having big delays in attacks, bad positioning, etc. Never mention exact DPS count since people will assume that you're using a parser.

It's another story though if you have an IQ of 1000 and can add a player's damage as they come out in the battle log...

Originally Posted by Wobi

So if the FFXIV community has already proven themselves incapable of properly using 3rd party DPS meters why are we promoting them again? I'm all for helping out my fellow player play better but I've never seen them used to positive effect. Just gives the vitriolic players in the community more ammo at their disposal.

And yet, in my years of MMO experience, this group is far smaller than made out to be by people like you. But here, i'll do one better. You say you've never seen them to positive effect, then I'd say you haven't looked. Yes, i've seen people use them to harass, not many, but I've seen it. I've also seen them used to help people improve. And this is the thing, giving them more ammo isn't going to make more of them. The people who are determined to be like that are ALREADY doing it. It's not going to suddenly change more people into asshats.

What you're saying is that it would never be used for good reasons, simply because you've never seen it. Now why haven't you seen it? Maybe you never played those games? Maybe never played with those people in this game? Maybe you intentionally ignored the good uses? I don't know which, but that doesn't mean it's non existent.

Originally Posted by Zephyranthes

It's a matter of wording. Tell them that they're doing bad DPS because you see them having big delays in attacks, bad positioning, etc. Never mention exact DPS count since people will assume that you're using a parser.

It's another story though if you have an IQ of 1000 and can add a player's damage as they come out in the battle log...

The problem is that the combat log has a limit. Even in medium length fights you will lose information as it reaches the cap, and the text logs the game saves are a jumbled mess to the human eye.

Originally Posted by Vangl

...When someone does a dungeon and the tank or healer isn't playing their job well, it's perfectly fine to tell them that... ...Doesn't that seem like a terrible double standard though?

IMO above example is irrelevant,
since people determine tank/healer not by parser, so it would be the same standard to determine dps without using parser.

In other words, If there is an official dps meter to judge dps, it will be double standard bcoz no meter for tank/heal ^^;

Originally Posted by Nicobo

IMO above example is irrelevant,
since people determine tank/healer not by parser, so it would be the same standard to determine dps without using parser.

In other words, If there is an official dps meter to judge dps, it will be double standard bcoz no meter for tank/heal ^^;

I think it went over your head. It's a double standard because a Tank or Healer failing is EASILY visible. A DPS failing is not, as such they have more of a shield in that regard. So, no, you're wrong. Also parsers record far far more than just DPS. People just see the DPS aspect and start claiming "elitism" and such.

Originally Posted by ispano

I think it went over your head. It's a double standard because a Tank or Healer failing is EASILY visible. A DPS failing is not, as such they have more of a shield in that regard. So, no, you're wrong. Also parsers record far far more than just DPS. People just see the DPS aspect and start claiming "elitism" and such.

I like the idea dps meter, as it would be helpful for ppl to determine dps performance.
But, I don't think above example is good enough to show "double stantards",
bcoz imo it was talking to measure DPS but not tank/heal so maybe it would be another double standard at somebody view^^;