I just wanted to point out a double standard...

[ispano]

I'm not dashing anyone's opinions. I've barely stated anything about my personal opinion on parsers aside from that final statement (which isn't strongly worded at all). All I've been doing is elaborating that there are other ways to see how someone was performing.

I understand not everyone can multitask. But out of a group of 8 (especially in a progression oriented static) not a single person can be bothered to take note of these things? Healers are already looking at the party list constantly, does it really hurt your performance to glance at the buffs every once in a while as you click on people's names? The whole point is progression and improvement. Isn't everyone supposed to be learning, helping and observing each other anyway? If eight players are that concerned with meeting DPS checks and none can be bothered to look at the party list except to see who died, I think there are other things holding the group back.

The thing you're missing is that players can keep these things up like you would expect them to to do good DPS. And then not do good DPS. There are things you cannot see. They might not have enough accuracy, and without inspecting their gear and doing the math, you might not know. They might be pausing longer between each GCD ability than they need to, and that time could only be a fraction of a second. Is Garuda on obey during a single target fight, since her multi hit ability lowers her DPS in that case?

I'll be the first to say not to harass someone. But they are part of the group, they need to be held accountable for their role in the group, just like the rest of us.

[Dwill]

The thing you're missing is that players can keep these things up like you would expect them to to do good DPS. And then not do good DPS. There are things you cannot see. They might not have enough accuracy, and without inspecting their gear and doing the math, you might not know. They might be pausing longer between each GCD ability than they need to, and that time could only be a fraction of a second. Is Garuda on obey during a single target fight, since her multi hit ability lowers her DPS in that case?

I'll be the first to say not to harass someone. But they are part of the group, they need to be held accountable for their role in the group, just like the rest of us.

Exactly. Nearly every other MMO out there gives you or let's you measure your group's overall DPS.The "People might be harassed once every blue moon" is totally not a valid reason to prevent the pros of having a legit parser or SE's stance to change on 3rd party parser.

[Wobi]

"People might be harassed once every blue moon" is totally not a valid reason to prevent the pros of having a legit parser or SE's stance to change on 3rd party parser.

Are you new to the MMO community? There is no might be, it's will be and it will be frequent. I've seen it plenty of times before SE officially gave word about parsers, early on people were verbally abusing other players right and left without abandon.

However, while I've never been on the receiving end of this abuse I hate to see it happen. People forget we are playing a game and let their emotions get the better of them.

[Althea]

Are you new to the MMO community? There is no might be, it's will be and it will be frequent. I've seen it plenty of times before SE officially gave word about parsers, early on people were verbally abusing other players right and left without abandon.

However, while I've never been on the receiving end of this abuse I hate to see it happen. People forget we are playing a game and let their emotions get the better of them.

It's funny you say that. I play WoW where everyone has a meter, and I see less elitism overall there than I do here.

[Wobi]

It's funny you say that. I play WoW where everyone has a meter, and I see less elitism overall there than I do here.

So if the FFXIV community has already proven themselves incapable of properly using 3rd party DPS meters why are we promoting them again? I'm all for helping out my fellow player play better but I've never seen them used to positive effect. Just gives the vitriolic players in the community more ammo at their disposal.

[ispano]

So if the FFXIV community has already proven themselves incapable of properly using 3rd party DPS meters why are we promoting them again? I'm all for helping out my fellow player play better but I've never seen them used to positive effect. Just gives the vitriolic players in the community more ammo at their disposal.

And yet, in my years of MMO experience, this group is far smaller than made out to be by people like you. But here, i'll do one better. You say you've never seen them to positive effect, then I'd say you haven't looked. Yes, i've seen people use them to harass, not many, but I've seen it. I've also seen them used to help people improve. And this is the thing, giving them more ammo isn't going to make more of them. The people who are determined to be like that are ALREADY doing it. It's not going to suddenly change more people into asshats.

What you're saying is that it would never be used for good reasons, simply because you've never seen it. Now why haven't you seen it? Maybe you never played those games? Maybe never played with those people in this game? Maybe you intentionally ignored the good uses? I don't know which, but that doesn't mean it's non existent.

It's a matter of wording. Tell them that they're doing bad DPS because you see them having big delays in attacks, bad positioning, etc. Never mention exact DPS count since people will assume that you're using a parser.

It's another story though if you have an IQ of 1000 and can add a player's damage as they come out in the battle log...

The problem is that the combat log has a limit. Even in medium length fights you will lose information as it reaches the cap, and the text logs the game saves are a jumbled mess to the human eye.