Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Kuwagami]

Just to be sure, are you aware that videos about elite players not wiping on a tank death have nothing to do about the fact that average players and groups (and even "not-so-bad"/good groups) can't recover from a death ?

Just saying.


A more accurate example could be my last T5 : everyone dropping dead one after another following a stupid mistake on the last DK before hatch phase, the healer swift raised me as a bard right when the tank dropped dead as well. LB3, echo helped us to win as the price of the OT being slaughtered the time for us to recover positions and focus. That was a complete PUG group with the sole condition being "know DK how to dodge twisters". People were not so great, dps was sloppy on conflags/snakes even with the 15%, but they were pro dodgers so who cares ?

It shows that players a little above average (provided they dedicated time learning the fight) can recover when things turn ugly. That said, if such a thing were to happen on T8/T9, it would be a wipe. Average players can't have the coordination and cold-blood needed for that when shit happens out of nowhere (in a PUG). That was the original point made by Yukiko.

And counter examples made of statics' kill or semi static (half static and half FC is so much more coordinated than random PUG... it's a whole different world) fail hard to address the point.
(still awesome recoveries though)


(and just to be sure that everyone understands what I'm saying, I bolded the important part. Thanks to echo)

[Dano]

Just to be sure, are you aware that videos about elite players not wiping on a tank death have nothing to do about the fact that average players and groups (and even "not-so-bad"/good groups) can't recover from a death ?

Just saying.

Of course it has everything to do with average players, these elite players were once also newbies/average players to the game, some learn the game and became good at it, they naturally gravitate to each other to form groups to clear content. If someone is dedicated enough they can clear content in due time.

Just saying.

[Nel_Celestine]

Of course it has everything to do with average players, these elite players were once also newbies/average players to the game, some learn the game and became good at it, they naturally gravitate to each other to form groups to clear content. If someone is dedicated enough they can clear content in due time.

Just saying.

The major problem I see is that not everyone learns at the same rate and thus those who learn slower are usually 'cast out' for those that already know or learn really fast. I've seen it happen many a time and while I know it's not always, it's more common than not outside of static groups. The more the fast learning players keep to themselves the more segregated the community becomes. There in lies the problem. Do you magically learn to learn fast, or play with 'the bads' until someone rage quits and the party disbands?

[Dano]

snip

That's true, i absolutely agree, thats why i said "in due time", do you think the slow learners will be forever cast out? would they become good later? If so if they are serious about progression would they seek out like minded players to clear content? I'll say yes, its only natural. The main culprit imo is the mindset/attitude that some players exhibit that they want something right NOW thats detriment to the community.

[Kuwagami]

Of course it has everything to do with average players, these elite players were once also newbies/average players to the game, some learn the game and became good at it, they naturally gravitate to each other to form groups to clear content. If someone is dedicated enough they can clear content in due time.

Just saying.

If you compare elite players to average and say the latter "hey look, people can do it", it doesn't address their own issues. It also fails to address the fact that statics (or semi statics, for that matters) are by no mean comparable to PUGs. I said that after that quote. Form a complete PUG with people you do not know at all, and intentionally die at an awkward moment. You'll see them falling apart, not trying all they have to recover. Do that with a static/semi static, they'll adapt more or less and try to recover (tanks switching roles, bard casting mana song for healers, dps not pushing phase...)


Also, you're missing the point with that comment. The fact that elites were once average people have nothing to do with what I said.

Just to be sure, are you aware that videos about elite players not wiping on a tank death have nothing to do about the fact that average players and groups (and even "not-so-bad"/good groups) can't recover from a death ?

Just saying.

Where do you address the fact that average people can't recover from a death on the concerned content (T5, titan Ex, Coil2 here were the examples) like the elites do ?
You're just saying that elites weren't able to do it once but now they can. Totally different point. In fact, you're even proving my point : average people can't do it while elites do.


and before someone evades the point, I'm not saying here that average people can't clear content. Just that they can't do it the way elites do. So elite's kill videos are irrelevant to address the "average people can't recover (before nerf at some point)".