Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Teirshin]

As for the then and now comparisons for player skill. You're wrong, simple as that. Players now are so much more skilled then they used to be. 10 years ago forums and databases didn't exist the way they do now. Sites like Wowhead, Gamerescape, and these very forums were non-existent. The sphere of plat that exists for MMO has changed radically and a lot of players in this very thread refuse to see or accept that.

Sorry but moving from point A to point B because the video tells you that now is the time to do it is not skill.

In the old days, players learned and adapted on the fly, thats more skill than someone nowadays who just looks up a video of a pre-scripted fight and just follows the same movements everyone else does.

There's no skill in following a pre-scripted movement pattern. Adapting on the fly takes skill.

The only thing the modern player is skilled at is looking up strategies so they dont have to exert 1 ounce of mental effort to learn it on their own, and looking up what drops there are in the dungeon that they want to roll on. Google-Fu is strong with this generation, but "on the spur of the moment thinking"... not so much.

[Clavaat]

Sorry but moving from point A to point B because the video tells you that now is the time to do it is not skill.

Except that doesn't work. When was the last time you went into a group where everyone watched the same video and beat it in 1 go, and NEVER had to adapt? In order for that to happen, everyone would have to be the exact same job as the video, do the exact same positioning as the video, and hope that the boss' RNG (yes, they have some) selects the right people.

You are greatly over-generalizing everything. You also act like people didn't look up guides/videos forever. I remember watching Kirin fights in FFXI and reading guides to figure out what we were supposed to do WAY ahead of time, back in '06. As a matter of fact, I always had FFXIclopedia open for all quests all the time...because it was nearly impossible to figure out what you were supposed to do otherwise.

It's the same as it's always been.

[Velhart]

Sorry but moving from point A to point B because the video tells you that now is the time to do it is not skill.

In the old days, players learned and adapted on the fly, thats more skill than someone nowadays who just looks up a video of a pre-scripted fight and just follows the same movements everyone else does.

There's no skill in following a pre-scripted movement pattern. Adapting on the fly takes skill.

The only thing the modern player is skilled at is looking up strategies so they dont have to exert 1 ounce of mental effort to learn it on their own, and looking up what drops there are in the dungeon that they want to roll on. Google-Fu is strong with this generation, but "on the spur of the moment thinking"... not so much.

Yea this isn't true. People used guides just as much back then as they do now. The only difference is YouTube was not a thing. With how much was usually in stake (like a BCNM/KSNM orb from FFXI), people would look up every detail of the fight to make sure all their efforts don't go to waste. Actually if anything, people used guides even more back then. MMO's today at least give you a peace of mind to experiment before deciding to use a guide.

To the 2nd point 1st since it leads into the 1st.

These events are tuned to sub ilvl 100 at optimal play. So sorry but tanks being amazing at cooldowns and DPS being awesome is not a requirement with ilvl 110 which is achievable without ever stepping foot in raids which brings me to the 1st point....

Why aren't there more people clearing T9? The better question is Why would you clear T9 at all? There is next to no motivation for anyone beyond hardcore raiders to do it. It is childs play and tuned for the SUPER casuals. But why would the super casuals bother to learn the DDR moves when they can just afk in town until a hunt spawns > port out > and be handed raid loot.

I thought the current discussion was pattern in fights, not the motivation to do them. Sounds a tad off topic.

[Meier]

Q: Currently, once you complete the Coil of Bahamut, you are unable to challenge it until the reset. If we are in a FC or LS with more than 8 players, it's hard to sync the progression of everyone in the FC/LS. Is there any way you could change the once-a-week system so that we could help out our fellow FC/LS members?

A: We've been receiving this question since launch and it's not that we haven't looked into it, but at the moment we don't feel it's something we need to act on right now. For example, if 4 people have cleared it and decide to help 4 others that have yet to clear itwho weren't going to lot on any equipment, there wouldn't be any issue if it is just for the clear. However, the development team has adjusted the stats on the reward items for players who were able to clear duties of this difficulty, and there is a concern that there would be item level inflation as there is a possibility that these rewards would fall into the hands of players that should not be obtaining them yet. Again, it's not that we haven't looked into this─we've certainly been thinking about this type of system, but this is not an issue where we can give an immediate answer.

Please tell me this is a mistranslation.

We've been receiving this question since launch and it's not that we haven't looked into it, but at the moment we don't feel it's something we need to act on right now.

>> Receiving it since launch. Don't feel the need to act on it.

...one year of asking isn't enough to act on it?

[Amberion]

Yea this isn't true. People used guides just as much back then as they do now. The only difference is YouTube was not a thing. With how much was usually in stake (like a BCNM/KSNM orb from FFXI), people would look up every detail of the fight to make sure all their efforts don't go to waste. Actually if anything, people used guides even more back then. MMO's today at least give you a peace of mind to experiment before deciding to use a guide.

Yes, there where guides back then. But it was more, stand here for a bit of safety, or you can kite it around here. And also what moves it had. Now it's pretty much stand here for x seconds, then move here because boss use this move and then do this and that.

You can almost write a macro for your player and just play up that and go have a smoke while it do the fight for you.

There're actually less improvisation shows than scripted ones. In fact, I don't really see the former type being represented at all besides acting/theater teaching lessons.
You'll sometimes see a humorist being asked to react to something, throwing a few good jokes and call it a day, but you'll never see an unscripted opera or, like I said, a ballet... because it makes no sense.

Make it like this then. An actor might forget his lines. A good one can improvise it on spot and not stumble.

[Clavaat]

Yes, there where guides back then. But it was more, stand here for a bit of safety, or you can kite it around here. And also what moves it had. Now it's pretty much stand here for x seconds, then move here because boss use this move and then do this and that.

Come on now, stop being silly.

The reason there are less details is simply that the fights didn't have anywhere near as much movement and coordination. Even then, they still give a hell of a lot of information. Not to mention there were videos (date 2007, this is just 1 example. 2nd video to appear on google search). You're grasping at straws here.

[Amberion]

Come on now, stop being silly.

The reason there are less details is simply that the fights didn't have anywhere near as much movement and coordination. Even then, they still give a hell of a lot of information. Not to mention there were videos (date 2007, this is just 1 example. 2nd video to appear on google search). You're grasping at straws here.

First of, those testimonials are not even close to how guides are for XIV.

Secondly, that movie was not a guide. And you can't take the info from that video and do exactly the same and win, like you can now days. A mod like WoWs deadly boss mod can be used in this game if it existed, it would not have functioned in XI.

And well, the Kirin fight probably have more movement then any fight in XIV. You also had to coordinate with you alliance on skillchains/magicbursts.

The only thing you knew about the moves Kirin had, is that he would use them sometime during the fight, but not when.

You will have to elaborate if it was something else you meant.

[Clavaat]

-snip-

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kirin Goes into pretty great detail of what to do. Again, there just weren't as many mechanics, so it will look like less, naturally.

The video was one example, there are many, and they existed back then. Come on, man, I googled "ffxi kirin strategy" and it was the first thing that came up. Replace Kirin with any other boss in FFXI and you'd get the same result, with the same amount of detail as an FFXIV fight.

And please, don't bring SC/MB into this. They were not difficult to perform or discover once guides were released. You just looked at it and went "Ya, that MB is strong against him, what do I have that makes it? Jim, can you do Y? I got X. Bob, you cast Z. Macro up. K." I'm not saying it wasn't a cool system mind you. But to say it was complicated is a stretch. The picture always makes it look worse than it is.

[Gilthas]

Eh, Clavaat is right, the reason there weren't any detailed guides for FFXI bosses is because there really was no need (though YouTube not being a thing back then also contributed a lot). They were simplistic enough for text to be more than enough. How hard is it to explain Kirin? How hard is it to explain Faf/Nid? How hard is it to explain DL?

Yes, it is true that Kirin required you to move a lot, but kiting was pretty much aimless, you just ran the boss in circles, that's not the kind of movements you do in FFXIV. FFXIV videoguides show you where to stand, Kirin doesn't need to show you because the only thing you need to know is to stay away if you're being targeted. And yes, FFXI did have the need for coordination for skillchains/magic bursts, but we're talking about a game where most classes had nothing to do until they reached 100 TP. Compare that to how Monk and Dragoons have to move around to keep their DPS up, and it's really no comparison at all.

[Amberion]

Eh, Clavaat is right, the reason there weren't any detailed guides for FFXI bosses is because there really was no need (though YouTube not being a thing back then also contributed a lot). They were simplistic enough for text to be more than enough. How hard is it to explain Kirin? How hard is it to explain Faf/Nid? How hard is it to explain DL?
-snip-

I guess we just have to disagree with each other here. I just don't see how you can give the details in a guide, when most happens randomly. When in a fully scripted fight, you can tell them what to do before a skill and after to prepare for next you know will come and when.

Yes, personal coordination is much more in this game. But I would trade all that for more interaction between the players instead.