I just wanted to point out a double standard...

[Nekodar]

This game has DPS checks, with content that's moderately difficult. If somebody was to tell me I wasn't doing enough DPS, it's going to actually mean a lot more to me to give it a value. For example "your dps is too low" tells me very little. If somebody told me "you're around 200 dps, when we really need 400 dps to down this boss", then I know how much I need to improve by. If I actually have a DPS meter, I have a way to measure my own performance, and gives me a way to actually determine if using a different rotation, or gear sets gives me more or less DPS.

So use a parser yourself, just don't talk about it.
Or have a friend run it and only keep it private.
Understand when you can get banned for using a parser and when they can't even detect or determine it.

[Althea]

So use a parser yourself, just don't talk about it.
Or have a friend run it and only keep it private.
Understand when you can get banned for using a parser and when they can't even detect or determine it.

Which is what people do. I just feel like it shouldn't be bannable to give a value when telling people if they're performing well, or underperforming. Either way they're going to be told they're not doing well.

[Nekodar]

Which is what people do. I just feel like it shouldn't be bannable to give a value when telling people if they're performing well, or underperforming. Either way they're going to be told they're not doing well.

If it's friendly advice, there would be no reason for the target player to file a complaint with the GM's and no ban would happen.
"You suck, you're only doing XX dps" is not friendly advice.
Friendly advice wouldn't even need to include actual dps numbers either. Just point out their rotation seems to be bad and point them to where they can read about improving it.

[Althea]

If it's friendly advice, there would be no reason for the target player to file a complaint with the GM's and no ban would happen.
"You suck, you're only doing XX dps" is not friendly advice.
Friendly advice wouldn't even need to include actual dps numbers either. Just point out their rotation seems to be bad and point them to where they can read about improving it.

I agree. You can also give a value to it, and still be friendly. Either way, you can be a jerk about it, or nice about it. So in my head, they're the same. One just has more information, and is bannable.

[Viridiana]

If it's friendly advice, there would be no reason for the target player to file a complaint with the GM's and no ban would happen.
"You suck, you're only doing XX dps" is not friendly advice.
Friendly advice wouldn't even need to include actual dps numbers either. Just point out their rotation seems to be bad and point them to where they can read about improving it.

That's the thing, though. Even friendly advice with parsed numbers is a bannable offense. There's no amount of friendliness I can imbue my statements with that will change SE's stance that using parsers will get you banned. The most I can do is be so polite that I convince my fellow players to conspire against SE and allow me to break the rules with no punishment.

For the comment that time-to-kill tells you if DPS is low, that only tells you the dps of the combined group. It won't tell you the why of the matter, only that something's up.

As to the assertion that numbers are unnecessary, I have to disagree. Say someone tells me "Hey, your DPS is a little low." This actually provides me very little information. Is my DPS barely below norms? Is it well below norms, but they're beating around the bush so I don't report them for harassment? How low is a little low? How low is well below? Now, if they say "Hey, someone with your gear should be able to squeeze out about 100 more DPS than you are," I suddenly have a much better scope of how I compare to the max. I now know that I'm probably about 75 DPS shy of the norm, and I can try to identify why. That's not possible with vague assessments, especially if it's coming from a time-to-kill measurement instead of actual numbers.

[Ryel]

That's the thing, though. Even friendly advice with parsed numbers is a bannable offense. There's no amount of friendliness I can imbue my statements with that will change SE's stance that using parsers will get you banned. The most I can do is be so polite that I convince my fellow players to conspire against SE and allow me to break the rules with no punishment.

For the comment that time-to-kill tells you if DPS is low, that only tells you the dps of the combined group. It won't tell you the why of the matter, only that something's up.

As to the assertion that numbers are unnecessary, I have to disagree. Say someone tells me "Hey, your DPS is a little low." This actually provides me very little information. Is my DPS barely below norms? Is it well below norms, but they're beating around the bush so I don't report them for harassment? How low is a little low? How low is well below? Now, if they say "Hey, someone with your gear should be able to squeeze out about 100 more DPS than you are," I suddenly have a much better scope of how I compare to the max. I now know that I'm probably about 75 DPS shy of the norm, and I can try to identify why. That's not possible with vague assessments, especially if it's coming from a time-to-kill measurement instead of actual numbers.

I think this is the point people are truly missing when they get up in arms in these threads about parsers.

Right now the tools in game aren't accurate in determining what needs improvement when it comes to being a DPS on end-game fights. the way the game is set up currently it's entirely possible that someone could be capable of dodging mechanics while not being able to DPS while doing so, and it could be could be for any number of reasons: Not hitting the acc cap for the encounter, bad rotation, etc. that have nothing to do with their ability to deal with the reactionary aspects of a given fight.

If someone was using a 3rd party application and saw 1 DPS only averaging in at say 50 DPS while the other 3 are averaging 300+ DPS (this is an example) how would you go about notifying them that they might be having issues? Enmity bars? Those aren't entirely accurate seeing as mechanics like tank swapping and abilities like quelling strikes make those unreliable. In addition trying to consistently monitor other people's enmity bars mid fight is counter intuitive in high mobility encounters when its much easier to look at a results page after a win or a wipe and see what did or didn't go correctly.

Honestly if someone does have accurate information regarding a DPS in party severely lagging behind and they say something along the lines of "Hey DRG is your rotation okay? you seem to be behind the other DPS by a fair margin" all they have to say is Prove it and you cant say anything that wont result in a ban.

This is compounded by the issue of us not being able to send /tells in instances so we cant even approach the subject without it coming across as an assault.

So you say kick the DPS? Okay for what? Dodging and not dying yet doing poor DPS? Isn't that vote-kick abuse which is yet another bannable offense?

There isn't a win here outside of run only with people you know