first it was crafting and gathers, now it pvpers...

[Alukah]

So, again, can we please stop with the strawman that people only want Morale to be "teh leetz!"? That is not the case. Any rational person wants Morale so that Wolves' Den and Frontlines can be functional pieces of content with a community that sticks around to aim for something, so that "casuals" can just drop by for fun when they want, and hopefully stick around to aim for the same gear and become part of the community. It's not even about wanting world renowned quality PvP in XIV, it's simply about wanting a PvP community in a MMO we enjoy.

News for you: PvP can be a functional piece of content without needing stats.

[Nalien]

News for you: PvP can be a functional piece of content without needing stats.

How about you actually counter every point I made prior to that paragraph, instead of just offering a meaningless blanket statement?

Ignoring the crux of ones argument in order to try and look smart with a single statement really makes you look like nothing more than a troll.

By all means though, only queue for PvP "for fun", damn a stat you seem completely ignorant of simply because you're scared of a challenge. Without a solid community behind the queue times you'll be trapped in a queue before giving up on the content, exactly like what happened with Wolves' Den. There will be some hype for Frontlines, people will get bored with the lack of a realistic goal behind it, they'll try to queue for it occasionally for fun, only to be met with a queue that never ends.

It's like if I was given a super robotic suit to play basketball with NBA players. Would that be fair to them? no because they trained hard to get where they are and it removes a majority of the competitiveness from the game.

Are you really comparing Morale to a NBA player playing in an exoskeleton? Really?!

Do you people have any idea what Morale actually does?

[NinjaDante]

Are you really comparing Morale to a NBA player playing in an exoskeleton? Really?!

Do you people have any idea what Morale actually does?

Yes I do know what Morale does, it increases overall defense and offense, which is why my analogy works correctly. NBA players train and condition their bodies most of their life to be able to play the way they do, there is a lot more than just skill involved in professional sports, and it's part of why steroids are banned, because work and effort over time should have meaning and pay off.

[Nalien]

Yes I do know what Morale does, it increases overall defense and offense, which is why my analogy works correctly. It's because NBA players train and condition their bodies most of their life to be able to play the way they do, there is a lot more than just skill involved in professional sports, and it's part of why steroids are banned, because work and effort over time has meaning and pays off.

Morale, in no way whatsoever, makes you unbeatable though. Morale actually adds a sense of competitiveness to PvP. If you're all equal, then there is absolutely no sense of "These guys are better than us", there are no triumphant underdog stories in PvP.

The bonus Morale provides, in no sense, makes it impossible for new players to succeed. All it does is provide a reason for players to continue to participate in PvP; you go obtain Morale gear so that you have an edge, not a guaranteed shot at victory. Again, without people continuing to participate in PvP for a gaol (in this case, Morale gear), queues are going to be horrible once the initial hype wears off.

To continue your NBA analogy; if someone completely green to Basketball jumped in, they would not have an advantage, would they? They would be at a incredible disadvantage. Why is it then, that everyone who hasn't touched PvP and wants to do Frontlines, expects to go in on a level playing field? If you enjoy Frontlines, become an active member of the PvP community and work for the gear. If you just want to enter "for fun"... Winning is the only way you can have fun? Being beaten by people who've put work into their PvP gear is somehow unfair?

[ispano]

If you're all equal, then there is absolutely no sense of "These guys are better than us", there are no triumphant underdog stories in PvP.

wat? Equality in gear means what shines through is the better group of players. If you had two groups of equally skilled players, the ones with the better "pvp gear" would have a clear advantage. So, i'm sorry, if your gear could not be better than the other groups, how you play as a person and as a group would be important in winning. ie better players will win against worse ones, without having gear to rely on.

[Nalien]

wat? Equality in gear means what shines through is the better group of players. If you had two groups of equally skilled players, the ones with the better "pvp gear" would have a clear advantage. So, i'm sorry, if your gear could not be better than the other groups, how you play as a person and as a group would be important in winning. ie better players will win against worse ones, without having gear to rely on.

Again, I've been in plenty of matches where my opponents had better Morale then my group. Morale is not such a powerful stat that it determines who wins and loses. If you go in knowing they have better gear, you simply play differently to win.

Groups are never going to be exactly equal in skill, especially in Frontlines where there's potentially 24 of you. If Morale was allowed in Frontlines, then it's just reason for you to play smart. You can identify Morale from a distance based on their gear, you cannot do the same with skill. If you know your enemy has high Morale, you just deal with them in a different manner, rather than everyone in Frontlines being the same and being treated the same. One is a zerg, the other has forethought involved.

[Malakhim]

I'm really starting to think that a lot of people commenting here are coming from the perspective of not actually having played much PvP, because there's a lot of stuff that is either flat out wrong or hyperbole.

PvP even with Morale gear at lvl.50 is STILL very much skill-based. If you don't know what you're doing, morale gear isn't going to help you. As Nalien points out, all it does is give you a slight edge. You still need to know how to move, how to attack, which abilities to use in which order, how to set up a defensive/offensive strategy, etc.

Many of you seem to think that Morale being null is going to help you win. It will not. What good is hitting or guarding at a slightly higher percentage gonna be if the opposing team's BLM knows how to effectively lay down a screen of sleeps, or if the tank keeps the healer stunned/isolated and the rest of the team blitzes against the opposing ranged DPS? Morale is a tool, but it doesn't set the pace of the game. The players do. I'll be honest. In the hands of a person who knows the ins and outs of a PvP match, Morale can be pretty beastly, but if the person doesn't know what the hell he/she is doing(like a lot of win traders who just want glamour gear), all morale does is make a slightly more beefy target. And I say this as a rank 24 MNK who has decimated rank 40 PLDs in full rank 30 - 40 gear. Have any of you actually looked at the minute increases you get in different sets of gear anyway?

Finally, as Nalien points out, PvP as another game type in FFXIV adds another progression chain for the people who for whatever reason don't want to/can't easily get high-level PvE groups going. It adds an extra layer to the game's appeal, and frankly I can't see why anyone would be opposed to that.