NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[Tiggy]

All this debate about rogue just being this games thief. Ridiculous. In the live letter they went to GREAT LENGTHS to make sure you understood this was not a thief. They said it was similar, but definitely not a thief. Rogue is not this games analogue to thief.

[Erudain]

So let's say SE didn't name it "rogue"....and they named it Thief

People would still be angry and complaining because thief would then be a base class and "OMG thief has to be a job, it cannot be a base class!!!"

If it feels like a thief, plays like a thief, has the traditional skills of a thief, then is a thief even if they name it burglar or robber...what's the difference? the name?
Then you care more for the name than the playstyle? They could throw you a thief healer and would be happy because is a "thief"?

When it gets to 30 and becomes a NIN..it will still have the thief playstyle...PLD still plays like GLD, DGN still plays like LCN, WHM still plays like CNJ....but then again the problem is the name? feels like a thief, plays like a thief, has thief traditional skills....but is named NIN and has 5 new skills?

[Reynhart]

All this debate about rogue just being this games thief. Ridiculous. In the live letter they went to GREAT LENGTHS to make sure you understood this was not a thief. They said it was similar, but definitely not a thief. Rogue is not this games analogue to thief.

Actually, they went to great lenghts to explain that this IS a Thief, apart from the actual name.
If it wasn't Thief at all, they wouldn't have to explain exactly why it wasn't named Thief.

[Reynhart]

People who usually say stop trying to make this game into FFXI, have never played it before. They hate the game out of ignorance. Adding a single job into this game doesn't equal making the game into FFXI.

The problem is not really hating this game.
It's people who claim what a job HAVE TO be based on one time only FFXI concept. Like how BLM MUST have 6 elements, or PLD MUST have Cure IV.

As for Thief not fitting in the lore, saddly it's what the producer think and, as far as we know, he's in charge.

[Abraxis]

Actually, they went to great lenghts to explain that this IS a Thief, apart from the actual name.
If it wasn't Thief at all, they wouldn't have to explain exactly why it wasn't named Thief.

Actually, they went to great lengths to say that they USED to be Thieves.

"They were ONCE thieves. And they, over the years, have evolved into this Rogue class, with their own guild and they'll have their own story and their own background."

Also

"They do have that Thief history. So we want to make sure that in the lore, in the story, that you'll have that feeling of, they came up from thieves and that thief....thieverism." (Yes, thieverism, it's hard to hear since Yoshida began to speak before the translator finished)

These are EXACT quotes from translator for Yoshida himself. So, it's pretty hard to imagine in any way that they'll add a Job when the Class preceding it moved on from them. That would be the worst kind of backwards progression (regression) possible. And to make sure the people that wanted just a Thief, will/should be ok with the change since they'll still have that feeling of being a Thief. And before anyone says "no they won't"...how on earth do you know!? They haven't announced ANYTHING in regards to skills or abilities other than "poisoned blades".

I understand it won't be end game viable (it might, i haven't bothered taking a "class" into Coil or anything) but that's just how it is for this PATCH. That's another thing people need to understand. This is a new Class/Job being added into a PATCH before the actual expansion to a game. How often does that happen? And yes, they are for sure adding a new Healer and Tank to the expansion, but they didn't say that would be the ONLY things they'd be adding. So, will they be adding a class that is just Thief renamed? Maybe, who knows. But it will for sure, not be called Thief.

[Nero]

Actually, they went to great lenghts to explain that this IS a Thief, apart from the actual name.
If it wasn't Thief at all, they wouldn't have to explain exactly why it wasn't named Thief.

No and this is what people do not get, even when it was explained a thousand times. Rogues were Thieves in the PAST and LOST their specialisation and became Rogues. So their Ancestors were Thieves, but Rogues are not Thieves anymore. But let aside the lore for a second, since that is allready causing confusing it seems... lol.... What is a Job compared to a Class? A specialisation of the Weapon Type, which is the Class.. the Class is not a Job and won't be, it is just the type of the Weapon. I am surprised that still that many people, do not understand the most simple Basics about the Game.

Like i said earlier. THF can not be a Class, RDM, SAM, BLU and whatever else is out there, won't be Classes. Their are a specialisation of their "Weapon Type" ( Class ). Some would Argue that RDM could fit in a couple Classes and that is true, since RDM did use different "Weapon Types" over the past titles. But that is beside the point. It is a simple Statement; THF can not be a Class in the System of FFXIV, that is a simple fact. If RDM would not branch of an existing Class, they would create one called.. i.e. "Fencer". They will not add SAM as Class, they would add a Class called i.e. "Braver". It IS possible to have several Jobs branch from 1 Class and that was actually the main-idea behind it, but also SE will still add more classes.

So while some argue that Rogue plays like Thief, how exactly do people know? 1) Noone did play Rogue or Ninja yet 2) Thief is not in the Game as well. How can people compare things they do not know about, or not even existant?

[Tiggy]

No and this is what people do not get, even when it was explained a thousand times. Rogues were Thieves in the PAST and LOST their specialisation and became Rogues. So their Ancestors were Thieves, but Rogues are not Thieves anymore.

This is what I was saying above. They were very specific about Rogues not being thieves. Yes, they were very clear that rogues originated as thieves, but they also went to great lengths and said several times that they are not thieves.

When they said this so specifically any arguments like "if it plays like a thief it must be a thief" is just plain wrong. They said, very very specifically that rogues were not thieves.

[Nero]

This is what I was saying above. They were very specific about Rogues not being thieves. Yes, they were very clear that rogues originated as thieves, but they also went to great lengths and said several times that they are not thieves.

Yea, exactly. While i was typing, your post was not there yet. XD

[Nalien]

I'm still amazed some people aren't able to see the logical fallacy in their argument...

Argument: Rogue plays like Thief, so it is Thief, so they don't need to add Thief.

Counter: Gladiator plays like Paladin, etc etc.

I mean honestly, how are people so ignorant as to what the Job system in this game is even meant to achieve? All Jobs are is the introduction of the name, gear, and a few classic moves, yet Thief isn't allowed that treatment because... It would end up the same as every other Job in the game?

What does Paladin add to the game? Generic MMO tank moves, and the classic Cover ability, as well as the AF. That's it. That is all Paladin adds to make it feel like a Final Fantasy Paladin, 95% of it is still Gladiator, yet they added Paladin anyway. Why on Earth can they not be allowed to do the same for Thief according to some people? Stubborn as a mule comes to mind... This is seriously an inane "discussion".

[Jandor]

Oooh, 5 job abilities. Sounds like a fun exercise.

JA1: Steal. Steals a reagent from an enemy and a small amount of HP, MP & TP (can steal upto 10% of Thiefs maximum.)
JA2: Use. Uses a reagent to give any stolen HP, MP & TP beyond Thiefs maximum to an ally.
JA3: Trick Attack. Jumps behind target and does a high damage attack that stuns. Off GCD.
JA4: Mug. Steals a reagent from an enemy and does damage.
JA5: Mix. Uses 3 reagents and opens a bar similar to the pet hotbar with option to mix a MP restore potion, TP restore potion, Smoke Grenade (increases evasion of team mates in the AoE and gives sneak attack buff, damage on next 2 attacks increased.) or Invigorate potion (gives quick attack buff within AoE, improves spell and skill speed greatly for short duration.)

No exact numbers but the theory behind it is that Thief could use steal and mug to fuel various abilities to help the team out, however steal/mug are low damage abilities and working enough of them into play enough to be able to constantly mix potions would cause the Thiefs DPS to drop substantially.

And yes, it's probably not the Thief a lot of people would like to see, but whatever .