NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[LoLo]

I don't even address people that repeat the same thing over and over again. Why are they so dead set on shutting down even the thought of having a Thief Job in this game? Do they like telling people they can't ask for stuff? Do they even have the authority to say these things?

If I want to play a Clown Job I have the right to ask for it. Now lets see how many people will come at me if I ask for that. None because they will think I am not even serious, but what if I am? Let me live lol.

[silentwindfr]

I don't even address people that repeat the same thing over and over again. Why are they so dead set on shutting down even the thought of having a Thief Job in this game? Do they like telling people they can't ask for stuff? Do they even have the authority to say these things?

If I want to play a Clown Job I have the right to ask for it. Now lets see how many people will come at me if I ask for that. None because they will think I am not even serious, but what if I am? Let me live lol.

exept yoshida himself have already say: rogue are repents thief! and that no thief will be added... you are the people asking for something that will never happend. move over it now...

I already made a post on this a few pages back. Rogue could become Thief in exactly the same way Thaumaturge becomes Black Mage. Black Mage is also a forbidden job and you are technically breaking the law and treading the grey area between good and evil by touching black magic... If it can happen there why can't a Rogue rediscover the abilities they gave up to comply with the law?

I've said it a bunch of times before and I'll say it again: GUILDS have to comply with the law as they are a part of the city, JOBS do not as the player is (in the lore) usually one of only a handful in existence.

and one more time, it's different, thief will not explore dark magic forbidden and such... but steal people stuff! when a lot of people in Eorzea are struggling for survive! tell me what message it bring? you can steal from people that are already poor? or you plan to steal the rich of uldah? wake up, we are heroes! thief are not heroes in eorzea! they are bastard that steal people stuff! (and sometimes life) that the lore of the game... you want they change it for make you feel better, when they have already place a class they have themself called thief while the E3. (well the translator)

finally, with the rogue class, what will bring the thief? by the twelves! we already did tell you that thief have almost no iconic skill that can be used in FF14.... but you don't listen! you only say... but in FF11 it was... and we are not in FF11! all the complain can only do one thing... make the rogue change name for thief! but don't hope for a jobs thief! simply because Yoshida have always said, they will never add 2 jobs that fit the same role from one class. for make simple, since ninja is dps, thief can't be added! (since it will be dps, and support don't really exist)

[Malakhim]

Nobody's telling you to stop wanting thief. Nobody is telling you to stop asking for thief. Hell, I WANT to play as Thief. That's pretty much my main go to in EVERY single Final Fantasy(including XI) and other RPG I play where it's an option. In FFXIV I will be playing as Rogue(and to go along with your perspective) I will be "maining" Ninja, because that's what is available(I also have a hard-on for Ninja, but that's besides the point).

What I AM saying is that demanding something blindly without really looking at the facts(of which there really are none at this moment) or respecting/trusting the devs to do something interesting and/or fun with an old idea is unfair. I'd say the same thing in the countless RDM or _insert job here_ threads.

Also a protip: Based on what you say about not appreciating the Duty Finder, I take it you're a fan of building a healthy, helpful, and friendly community. Antagonizing fellow forum posters with bullish tones won't do anything to help that.

[Alberel]

and one more time, it's different, thief will not explore dark magic forbidden and such... but steal people stuff! when a lot of people in Eorzea are struggling for survive! tell me what message it bring? you can steal from people that are already poor? or you plan to steal the rich of uldah? wake up, we are heroes! thief are not heroes in eorzea! they are bastard that steal people stuff! (and sometimes life) that the lore of the game... you want they change it for make you feel better, when they have already place a class they have themself called thief while the E3. (well the translator)

finally, with the rogue class, what will bring the thief? by the twelves! we already did tell you that thief have almost no iconic skill that can be used in FF14....but you don't listen! you only say... but in FF11 it was... and we are not in FF11! all the complain can only do one thing... make the rogue change name for thief! but don't hope for a jobs thief! simply because Yoshida have always said, they will never add 2 jobs that fit the same role from one class. for make simple, since ninja is dps, thief can't be added! (since it will be dps, and support don't really exist)

Have you heard of Robin Hood? He was a thief and is widely regarded as a hero. He stole from the rich and gave to the poor and basically proved that stealing can be used for good. There's nothing to stop them implementing Thief and having the player steal from bad guys only. Just because the thieves of old in Eorzea's lore were bad guys the player doesn't automatically become a bad guy just by learning their skills. Black magic was used for great evil too yet when you become a black mage you use it for good instead of evil. The problem here is quite simply that you lack any imagination for ways the lore could still allow the player to become a Thief. There is nothing currently in the lore that would make it an impossibility.

And I already explained earlier in this thread that Thief would make a perfect support class akin to bard, stealing stats from enemies and using them to buff the party. They can control enmity to better assist the tank. They can distract targets briefly to give the healers some breathing room. Honestly just USE YOUR IMAGINATION. Very few of the jobs currently in this game are implemented the same as they were in previous incarnations of the series. Stop assuming Thief would have to be exactly like x version you saw in a previous game. If Rogue does not have Mug, Steal, Escape, Trick Attack, etc then there is PLENTY of room for a Thief job.

Use your imagination a bit...

[Deusteele]

Because, as much as it is your privilege to argue for the inclusion of Thief, it is our privilege to argue against it. Many of us arguing against THF are doing so on the grounds that a Thief job cannot play separate enough from a Ninja when branching off of the same class. This is in addition to the resistance against giving a DoW a possible unique material gain advantage.

Now personally, I would be just as adamant against NIN if THF were to be the job coming from Rogue due to the same argument of not needing multiple damage dealing jobs coming from the same class.

Part of the argument against may also be a plea to Yoshida's team to limit the job bloat that Tanaka and Matsuno brought to the series. Few jobs can mean a greater feeling of uniqueness and a smoother time with game balance.

[LoLo]

Because, as much as it is your privilege to argue for the inclusion of Thief, it is our privilege to argue against it. Many of us arguing against THF are doing so on the grounds that a Thief job cannot play separate enough from a Ninja when branching off of the same class. This is in addition to the resistance against giving a DoW a possible unique material gain advantage.

Now personally, I would be just as adamant against NIN if THF were to be the job coming from Rogue due to the same argument of not needing multiple damage dealing jobs coming fro the same class. Part of the argument against may also be a plea to Yoshida's team to limit the job bloat that Tanaka and Matsuno brought to the series. Few jobs can mean a greater feeling of uniqueness and a smoother time with game balance.

This is the only thread on jobs where I have seen people not want people to ask the devs to include a certain job they like. If you do not plan to play Thief, having Thief in the game won't matter to you because you wont level it. So there is no reason as to why you should even care if you are not interested in the job.

This is a Final Fantasy game. All Final Fantasy games have lots of jobs to select from. I have never played a Final Fantasy game that didn't include a large list of jobs to select from. Job bloat and all of the other reasons are nonsense in my opinion.

[MartaDemireux]

Many of us arguing against THF are doing so on the grounds that a Thief job cannot play separate enough from a Ninja when branching off of the same class. This is in addition to the resistance against giving a DoW a possible unique material gain advantage.

Now personally, I would be just as adamant against NIN if THF were to be the job coming from Rogue due to the same argument of not needing multiple damage dealing jobs coming from the same class.

First: Ninja will be getting different weapon drops from primals than Rogue (Source). This is a clear indicator that Ninja will play differently and perhaps almost independently from Rogue. The other clear indicator is that Ninja will be using the Mudra system (Info on Mudra and Ninjutsu). From this we can see that Ninja will likely be an entirely different playstyle from Rogue from the start. One job can play exactly like its class and the other differently. ACN and SMN play the same but SCH is different. All the others jobs play exactly like their classes at the moment with BRD and WAR being the only ones to add notable mechanics which I think is why everyone automatically assumes Ninja will play just like Rogue but this doesn't have to be the case. Thief could play exactly like Rogue as long as the Mudra system is enough to differentiate Ninja. It's also possible to make Thief a tank which would play entirely differently as well (WAR was always more a DPS but is tank here afterall and SCH was usually more like a DPS, too). With the different weapons perhaps Rogue/Thief's drops will focus on DEX for parry chance or a damage modifier and Ninja's will focus on STR for damage or maybe add in a lot of INT for their Ninjutsu.

Second: Steal does not have to be a monetary gain but can instead be used as a Rogue/Thief gimmick (perhaps for enmity generation in the role of a tank (you hate people that steal from you)) that Ninja doesn't have access to or has limited access/use for it. Perhaps it will use a different main stat in its mechanism such as DEX while Ninja focuses on STR. We've been told Ninja will wear melee DPS gear (likely Monk's gear, same source as above primal weapons source) so this could easily free up Thief and/or Rogue to wear Bard's gear (which does noticeably affect evasion rates). If they're getting different drops from the primals it's pretty clear that they will be using different stats in some way.

[Jarinolde]

Considering EVERY OTHER PRIMAL WEAPON can be used by both the class and job respectively, I believe Yoshida meant that the dual daggers that drop from primals will be usable by both RGE and NIN. NIN will NOT have their own unique weapons that RGEs can't use. This is NOT like SCH (more on that below).

The Mudra system is more akin to WAR's Wrath system, which is why you are seeing this comparison a lot. It's not being compared to ACN/SMN > SCH because a CHANGE IN THE ROLE happens, this doesn't happen with WAR. That is why a PLAYSTYLE change happens, because half of your abilities as an ACN don't matter as a SCH! This won't be the case with RGE > NIN though as they are both DPS, therefore all speculation that THF will come and be the natural progression from RGE is wrong.

I will agree with you however of the possibility that the 2nd job (whatever it may be) could use DEX instead of STR, we already have the precedent from ACN/SMN and SCH to show that they're willing to do it that way.

[Reynhart]

You're aware that it's not tied to the job wether DEX or STR is the "main" stat ?

STR increase attack, while DEX increase ranged attack. Dual-blade ? Close combat, STR dependant.

[Mcshiggs]

You're aware that it's not tied to the job wether DEX or STR is the "main" stat ?

STR increase attack, while DEX increase ranged attack. Dual-blade ? Close combat, STR dependant.

They could easily put in that dex is the stat that increases attack power while dual wielding blades, they did it so that dex increased ranged damage. It all has to be programmed in if it is STR or anything else, so it wouldn't be that hard and just add to the tooltip when you hover over dexterity.