NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[Erudain]

classes are not for playing beyond level 30, but I see you are trolling so I'll stop entertaining you.

Oh seriously? I was pretty sure my conjurer, archer and lancer kept learning skills up to level 50, and that Dragoon, Bard and White Mage only gave me 5 extra skills and a couple traits....

[Nalien]

Actually, almost everyone that facepalms at the idea of implementing RNG as a second job off of ARC, it gets brought up *all the time* that ARC is already RNG. The 2 trademark abilities that RNG has had are Barrage and Aim. ARC explicitly *gets* Barrage and Hawk's Eye is Aim (short duration, increased damage, cannot miss).

You and I must have visited some very different "New Job suggestions" threads... Archer => Ranger is something I've seen almost unanimously agreed upon in such threads.

Consider this: the only possible role for THF to fill within the confines of the trinity is DPS (Support isn't a role, it's a subrole; with the hypothetical hybrid role, how does THF get interpreted as either healer *or* tank without stretching the entire theme to the point of incredulity?). NIN is already a DPS and jobs only bring 5 abilities so any other DPS built off of ROG would play just like NIN (because NIN already plays like ROG with a slight modification).

Adding THF to ROG as a second job is basically wasted development resources because it's not *adding* anything to the game: THF would still play *just* like NIN with a few *tiny* differences (you now use Steal to get a job specific resource to fuel special attacks instead of using mudras). The only major difference would be that it's called THF instead of NIN and has a different look (90+% of a class/job's functionality is derived from the class, not the job).

2 DPS roles coming off 1 Class is hardly the end of the world, and it would be no more a waste of resources than all Jobs are already. Again, Yoshida specifically went about implementing Jobs the moment he took over XIV. Adding the Jobs was his call, he could have just left Classes the same and given them what are now Job abilities (in fact, most of them were regular Class abilities at launch, weren't they?).

No, he specifically set out to add Jobs for the sole reason of adding Jobs, because apparently that matters to Final Fantasy. Thief is a Job, not a Class, because Classes are worthless.

If you honestly think that THF can coexist with NIN as a ROG job, come up with some way for it to coexist rather than co-opt it.

Fairly sure I already have, not that such a thing matters until we actually know more about Rouge and Ninjas skill sets.

Oh seriously? I was pretty sure my conjurer, archer and lancer kept learning skills up to level 50, and that Dragoon, Bard and White Mage only gave me 5 extra skills and a couple traits....

Oh, you play Lancer at level 50 do you?

Seriously, how dense can people be that they cannot comprehend this simple point? You do not play Lancer at Lv50. You play Dragoon. Yes it has Lancers skills still, but that doesn't mean you're playing Lancer. You specifically equip an item to play Dragoon and 30 and you never unequip it.

Jesus Christ, it's like arguing with a wall...

[Erudain]

So it's the point I'm saying, Rogue could be played like a thief, it could have lv1-50 thief skills/trait, ninja could only give him 5 skills but you'd complain because the name plate shows you as "ninja" even if 85% of the skills and playstyle are thief/rogue skills...
Or does a Dragoon/White Mage/Bard playstyle differ a lot from their base class?

That to me means you're attached to the "name" the job has, not the playstyle......hence my previous example, if it plays like a geomancer, it has geomancer skills and traits, but they call it "Elementalist" people would complain because is not called geomancer even if it plays like a geomancer?

Off topic: let's say new player comes and joins the game, fresh start.....could he be a rogue -> ninja from the start? wouldn't that create a story paradox?.... Lady Yugiri doesn't get here until you clear the main story, how could she teach someone in his first 30s class who hasn't even cleared Titan yet?

[KingOfAbyss]

Good point about the story Erudain.

If you start fresh as Rogue - my guess for it to fit in, would be to start in Yugiri's hometown (new maps! woot!)

Then as the story begins (lvl 1) you will be told to keep your vow your allegiance and anything pertaining to your training - a secret until she deems to reveal to the masse.

And yes - If the color green in one country was named blue in another one on the same day/month/year on this universe - each would be correct.

--> You not only get 5 skills form a job - a little boost into attributes - HP and MP too.

If a specific place one-shot those under 5k HP, and you don't have the gear accessories to make it possible to gain that much HP beyond switching to a job - classes would be worthless..

It's sad really, hope they'll give classes a second wind

[LoLo]

Jesus Christ, it's like arguing with a wall...

Yep, and you just end up talking in circles with them. Best not to engage people who refused to reason.

Not only that, but apparently all characters will remain at level 50 and there is no possible chance that jobs will get more than just 5 actions...

[Nero]

Actually, almost everyone that facepalms at the idea of implementing RNG as a second job off of ARC, it gets brought up *all the time* that ARC is already RNG. The 2 trademark abilities that RNG has had are Barrage and Aim. ARC explicitly *gets* Barrage and Hawk's Eye is Aim (short duration, increased damage, cannot miss).

RNG branching from ARC is not a new Idea and has been brough up and agreed on a lot of times. And No, Archer is not Ranger. The same way Paladin is not Gladiator and Warrior is not Marauder. The same way Ninja will not be Rogue and Thief is also not Rogue. Archer don't have to work 100% the same like it did in previous FF Titles and the same goes for THF. Actually Bard has proven, that it can differ a lot from how it plays in comparsion to other titles.

Furthermore, those of us that get aggravated about the THF fanbois insisting that THF should be brought into game and/or that it will be brought into game it's basically because you're asking for the developers to waste development resources.

Consider this: the only possible role for THF to fill within the confines of the trinity is DPS (Support isn't a role, it's a subrole; with the hypothetical hybrid role, how does THF get interpreted as either healer *or* tank without stretching the entire theme to the point of incredulity?). NIN is already a DPS and jobs only bring 5 abilities so any other DPS built off of ROG would play just like NIN (because NIN already plays like ROG with a slight modification).

We don't know how Rogue and Ninja play, but from what has been said so far, they play different in most aspects. Being Class and Job and using the same Weapon, does not mean they play the same way. THF can still be DPS and also can be "Support". Yea, you are right.. support is not a role.. yet, still can work as one, the same way BRD can work as one, while being a DPS.

Adding THF to ROG as a second job is basically wasted development resources because it's not *adding* anything to the game: THF would still play *just* like NIN with a few *tiny* differences (you now use Steal to get a job specific resource to fuel special attacks instead of using mudras). The only major difference would be that it's called THF instead of NIN and has a different look (90+% of a class/job's functionality is derived from the class, not the job).

Same thing again. Look at how SMN and SCH are different from each other, even if you claim: (90+% of a class/job's functionality is derived from the class, not the job) So why would that not apply to THF and NIN?

(90+% of a class/job's functionality is derived from the class, not the job)To the people that seriously want to see THF brought in as a job, I challenge you (the "THF can will be a job" people) to come up with 5 *useful* abilities that would not be absolutely positively broken while simultaneously explaining how those 5 abilities (and just those 5 abilities; saying that a whole slew of class abilities will be entirely rewritten when you swap to said job is just saying admitting that you can't change the playstyle with just a job) will completely and totally change how a class plays when it converts over to a job (and you cannot simply put together 5 attacks that replace the ones the class gets; the devs are correcting the unintentionally unused abilities so designing a class that *purposefully* renders a large number of abilities from the base class useless is just inane).

5 you want?

1) Steal

Cast Instant, Recast 480, TP Cost 500

Can steal an Item, which would drop from the Treasure Chest, after defeating it. Chance of Success: 10%

2) Treasure Hunter

Cast Instant, Recast 720, TP Cost 250

Improves the successrate of Steal by 15%, lowers your defense by 15% in exchange.

3) Sneak Attack

Cast Instant, Recast 180, Duration 30 sec

Must be executed from behind, with PT member between you and the Target.

Increases your Atk by 15% if successfull, STR of the PT Member by 5%, lowers your defense by 15% if failed. Successrate: 70%

4) Trick Attack

Cast Instant, Recast 360, Duration 30 sec

Must be executed from flank, with PT member between you and the Target.

lowers your Atk by 15% if successfull, lowers Atk of the PT Member by 5%, increases Steal by 5% and next SA by 30%.

5) Gil Toss

Cast Instant, Recast 480, TP Cost 200

Does throw a random number of Gil out of the PT total pool ( max 50k ) at the Enemy and in exchange can incease the Droprate of rare Items. In example Mounts.


Lol.. i made those up in like what? 2 Minutes? The 5 Job Abilities can change the Class and its gameplayA LOT.

"Changing how the class plays" doesn't just mean "I added an attack"; it means making it so that the base class goes from playing like LNC to playing like PUG or from SMN to BLM (e.g. it is a recognizably different *playstyle*). DRG adds the jumps, but it is still fundamentally LNC. WAR adds the Wrath stuff, but it plays *exactly* like MRD 90% of the time. PLD plays exactly like GLA. All of the jobs (with the exception of SCH because it's a completely different role that uses a completely different suite of abilities) are simply a small set of bonus conditional options (or abilities that are used but do not interfere with the existing playstyle). If you honestly think that THF can coexist with NIN as a ROG job, come up with some way for it to coexist rather than co-opt it.

It is the way how you choose the Abilities and how the actual Job can make use of the Class Skills. Let's just assume that there will be THF beside NIN, they both don't have to share the same Cross-Class Abilities and also do not have to share the same Base-Stats. They also could be a different role, without being both DPS or both can be DPS, but one can be supporter and the other "Debuffer". IT is quite possible, so i don't see a Problem here.

I am not saying Thief is coming, or should come.. tbh i do not really care, but to say it is impossible is just not true.

[Nayto]

Hmm... you know.

What if Rogue already came with steal and sneak attack?

WHERE ARE YOUR GODS NOW?

[Reynhart]

This is unbelievable...
Little tip, here's how I play my PLD in game.

Activating one oath depending on the situation
Pulling the mob with Shield Lob or Provoke
Buffing my damage with Flight or Fight and starting my Rage Of Halone combo
Every now and them, I use Circle Of Scorn to apply a DoT on several foes
If I have to tank many foes, I use Flash between two or three weapon skills
If I have something to Stun, I quickly use Shield Bash, and if I block an attack, Shield Swipe
If things starts to look bad, either Rampart or Sentinel to mitigate damage, or even Bulwark, so I can Block more
If I have something to silence, a little Spirits Within does the job
And if I'm in dire need of healing, Convalescene helps the healer to keep me healthy
Or I can Cure myself by cross-classing, and pop a Riot Blade combo to refill my MP gauge

Now, what is the purpose of this long yet basic PLD playing guide ?
ONLY TWO OF THE SKILLS I USE CONSTANTLY ARE REALLY FROM PLD !!! And one of them is a "fire and forget" skill...

So don't tell me I'm not playing like a GLA even after lvl30.

Take the green outfit shown in the trailer, mirage that to your all powerful gear, and look away from the NIN icon, and you'll be playing exactly like a Thief

[Nalien]

Off topic: let's say new player comes and joins the game, fresh start.....could he be a rogue -> ninja from the start? wouldn't that create a story paradox?.... Lady Yugiri doesn't get here until you clear the main story, how could she teach someone in his first 30s class who hasn't even cleared Titan yet?

Rouge wont be a starting Class, problem solved.

The Guild is only introduced at the end of 2.2 as well, so it's logical they wont allow it to be a starting Class. It's effectively an expansion Class/Job with 2.4 being the expansion; you cannot unlock it until you've entered that content. Other than Musketeer, which would finish Limsas starting trinity, I'd expect all new Classes/Jobs to be like that.

So don't tell me I'm not playing like a GLA even after lvl30.

If you're playing Gladiator after Lv30, please do provide some proof that you've... I don't know, cleared all the Coil Turns while on Gladiator without your Paladin Stone equipped.

I've had someone who hadn't bothered to unlock Paladin in a late end dungeon once, it was terrible. Without Shield Oath they couldn't even hold hate, so good luck with that.
(inb4 gets carried off tanking)

Take the green outfit shown in the trailer, mirage that to your all powerful gear, and look away from the NIN icon, and you'll be playing exactly like a Thief

Thief with hand signs and Ninjitsu, that jumps on the heads of enemies instead of, you know, being a Thief.

Again, why even bother adding Ninja? Get on Monk, Glamour Fuma gear over your endgame gear, done. Ninja is already in the game ! It's still doing DPS damage, just the animations are different ! Why do you care so much about the animation ?

[Reynhart]

If you're playing Gladiator after Lv30, please do provide some proof that you've... I don't know, cleared all the Coil Turns while on Gladiator without your Paladin Stone equipped.

So, although I play exactly the same with the same skills, as long as I have the soulstone equipped, the job is totally different ? Are you kidding me ?
It's pretty clear from your comment that you just want a name, and don't even bother on gameplay mechanics.

So I suppose if they gave a job that can steal, flee, hide, Sneak and Trick attack, as long as it's not named "Thief", you'd still complain...

Thief with hand signs and Ninjitsu, that jumps on the heads of enemies instead of, you know, being a Thief.

Blasphemy for all those THF/NIN back in FFXI, doing hand signs and Ninjutsu !
And yeah, jumping around is totally not Thief https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwLutErMlUI

But please, enlighten me, what is "being a Thief" ?