Acceptable Cash Shop Items: Suggestions!

[JatohCynn]

Never had i said anything that implied representing everyone, it was entirely from my individual opinion, so your point being?

And he stated that HE didn't play p2p games with cash shops. What was your point other than to simply be a contrarian?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_%28pronoun%29

[Ikeda]

snip

MMOs that failed due to being a lazily developed WoW clone or double dipping cash shop include: RIFT (not sure if it had a cash shop but self admitted WoW clone), Aion (vanity cash shop and possibly more on top of being the biggest WoW clone from Korea), TERA (everything except the combat was generic crap copied out of WoW and they tried to add a cash shop when their subscriptions were low also went F2P within about a year), SWTOR (didn't even last as a P2P game for a year, not sure if it added the cash shop before going F2P), Lord Of The Rings Online (cash shop and WoW clone), Elder Scrolls Online (hasn't failed yet but is already on its way down because of the generic solo-centric content copied from WoW and the cash shop), DC Universe Online (again with the solo-centric content, not sure if the cash shop was added before it went F2P), Champions Online (same as DC Universe Online), Warhammer Online (again WoW clone, don't know if a cash shop was involved), Everquest 2 (tried to copy WoW which was already a dumbed down copy of the original everquest again with the stupidity), Vanguard Online (as far as I remember WoW clone with some slight sandbox elements).

Do you really need a bigger list? I could go on.

Also here's a question. Do you have any evidence or statistics to disprove my claims? Because so far all it seems you're doing is trying and failing at the whole "let's paint the different opinion as a conspiracy nut so people are afraid to agree with them" tactic.

I'm playing FFXIV on Windows 8 and then 8.1 after the update, so you're saying it doesn't work on Windows 8 & 8.1?

As far as I've been told by someone I know who has been incapable of playing the game since the 8.1 update yes.

[Saccharin]

There are no acceptable cash shop items in a sub game. If they can't sustain the game with the current sub price then increase the sub price.

[JatohCynn]

Perhaps try reading further back?



Obviously he sought to represent the thoughts and opinions of the "vast majority" hence my response that he doesn't represent the "vast majority" unless he has statistics to back that claim

You were quoting Keberon, not Ikeda.

Indeed, you speak for yourself, you don't represent everyone or even the vast majority for that matter.

[ReiszRie]

MMOs that failed due to being a lazily developed WoW clone or double dipping cash shop include: RIFT (not sure if it had a cash shop but self admitted WoW clone), Aion (vanity cash shop and possibly more on top of being the biggest WoW clone from Korea), TERA (everything except the combat was generic crap copied out of WoW and they tried to add a cash shop when their subscriptions were low also went F2P within about a year), SWTOR (didn't even last as a P2P game for a year, not sure if it added the cash shop before going F2P), Lord Of The Rings Online (cash shop and WoW clone), Elder Scrolls Online (hasn't failed yet but is already on its way down because of the generic solo-centric content copied from WoW and the cash shop), DC Universe Online (again with the solo-centric content, not sure if the cash shop was added before it went F2P), Champions Online (same as DC Universe Online), Warhammer Online (again WoW clone, don't know if a cash shop was involved), Everquest 2 (tried to copy WoW which was already a dumbed down copy of the original everquest again with the stupidity), Vanguard Online (as far as I remember WoW clone with some slight sandbox elements).

Do you really need a bigger list? I could go on.

So they're your opinions, not statistics as you've previously claimed. Right, in that sense, everything can be a WoW clone in your opinion.

and as your examples have shown, their demise isn't explicitly due to micro transactions but because the game just wasn't popular enough to retain players, hence a hail mary on their part to remain afloat, micro trasactiosn are often the result, not the cause of MMOs failing. None of those examples are indication of micro trasactions being the sole factor that causes P2P to fail (and a handful of them aren't even P2P.)

I'd like statistics or even just articles from reputable sources attributing cash shops as the primary factor that otherwise healthy P2P MMOs fail; that was your argument right? that cash shops causes games to fail.

[ReiszRie]

You were quoting Keberon, not Ikeda.

My mistake, I've edited my post to reflect on that mistake.

[ShinigamiZero]

Your subscription increases in value with every patch released and your subscription does not take into account the increasing server requirements to accommodate large and larger content, we should stop having the thought that paying a subscription = entitled to everything.

e.g you pay a monthly subscription for your internet, are you entitled to future additions of new technology or higher speed plans at no additional costs?

Not really, because I pay monthly and not just once. Why should I pay additionally on top of my subscription? Might as well make the game like guild wars 2 where you pay once and have a cash shop because I don't see a difference. I am paying monthly for constant updates and decent servers. If I am to pay on top of that, the game might as well go the guild wars 2 route.

[skaterger]

MMOs that failed due to being a lazily developed WoW clone or double dipping cash shop include: RIFT (not sure if it had a cash shop but self admitted WoW clone), Aion (vanity cash shop and possibly more on top of being the biggest WoW clone from Korea), TERA (everything except the combat was generic crap copied out of WoW and they tried to add a cash shop when their subscriptions were low also went F2P within about a year), SWTOR (didn't even last as a P2P game for a year, not sure if it added the cash shop before going F2P), Lord Of The Rings Online (cash shop and WoW clone), Elder Scrolls Online (hasn't failed yet but is already on its way down because of the generic solo-centric content copied from WoW and the cash shop), DC Universe Online (again with the solo-centric content, not sure if the cash shop was added before it went F2P), Champions Online (same as DC Universe Online), Warhammer Online (again WoW clone, don't know if a cash shop was involved), Everquest 2 (tried to copy WoW which was already a dumbed down copy of the original everquest again with the stupidity), Vanguard Online (as far as I remember WoW clone with some slight sandbox elements)

I don't see how this proves anything that cash shops are the bane of MMOs. You literally just listed all the most popular mmos over the past 7-8 years and in your opinion they all "failed". You have to keep in mind that no game can be labelled successful if you are using World of Warcraft as your baseline benchmark. If anything, it only proves that the MMORPG genre has gotten stale and innovation is desperately needed. I also don't see how being a Wow clone cam be tied in to your argument of cash shops = fail since Wow's blizzard store has been around for a long time (though the recent lvl 90 boost was the only real p2w feature).

I'm actually standing on your side of the fence but I just don't see how the above arguments substantiate your point.

[Ikeda]

snip

1. It isn't a opinion it's a simple fact based on common sense. Can you give me even a single logical reason why anyone would want to play a copy of WoW that has less content than the original? It's all a pattern. They get falsely hyped by advertising thinking "finally a new mmo that isn't WoW I'm tired of that old game", quickly realize they're playing a copy of WoW with less content than the original, then they take 1 of 4 paths. They go back to WoW, they try their luck at the next "new" mmo or try some generic F2P game (repeat cycle), they opt out of mmos altogether because the genre is far too homogenized due to braindead developers and WoW's unfortunate success, they stick around for a while in the futile hope that the developers will one day actually try to make the game unique only to be disappointed and eventually go down 1 of the other 3 paths (I'm currently on path #4 when it comes to FFXIV). Also when I say WoW clone I mean the game over-emphasizes solo content and fast leveling all to get to a overhyped "endgame", is based around the themepark model where you're led down a set path by quest npcs, and it usually has the same outdated tab-targeting combat we've had since before WoW even existed although that doesn't always necessarily make it a WoW clone (the other parts are almost always guaranteed to be included though).

2. Microtransactions may not be the sole factor in the failure of those games but they were almost always the final nail in the coffin for them for the games that were foolish enough to add a cash shop before going F2P. You also don't need statistics to show that cash shops cause people to leave P2P games and honestly do you think anyone's bothered to make any "official" statistics charts for it? I can't even find a compiled list of all the failed P2P mmos. I had to list those off of what I remember reading from individual articles or watching the mmos fail first hand myself. I actually saw a few people like you begging for a cash shop in the TERA online forums back when it was still P2P. Then those people finally got what they wanted, I and many others instantly quit the second the cash shop was added for the reasons I've stated in this thread and the game failed within the year.

3. Also every single mmo I listed started out as a P2P game. Most have gone F2P and Vanguard (as far as I remember) was shut down once, brought back as F2P and then quickly shut down again for good.

You have to keep in mind that no game can be labelled successful if you are using World of Warcraft as your baseline benchmark.

The definition of successful I'm using here is the definition for a successful P2P game. As in a mmo that starts out as P2P and never has to dumb down to F2P to survive. They don't need WoW's subscription numbers obviously they only need enough to stay profitable.

A list of successful P2P mmos would be: Ultima Online, FFXI, Star Wars Galaxies (it was eventually shut down to force players to play SWTOR when it was first released, funny considering how quickly SWTOR failed), WoW (unfortunately), EVE Online, honestly I can't think of many others because it seems the list of successful P2P games are all noticeably very old mmos. Dark Age Of Camelot and Asheron's Call if those are still running as P2P but not sure if they are. Notice how every other mmo that has been able to survive as a P2P game were all created before WoW and you sort of notice a problem with the genre. Before WoW every new mmo was actually a new freaking mmo in some way or another. Then WoW had the ridiculous success it had and suddenly all mmo developers became braindead and got tunnel vision. Getting the delusion that WoW is some sort of "perfect template" for creating a successful P2P game when it's nothing more than a overly casual copy of Everquest.

I also don't see how being a Wow clone cam be tied in to your argument of cash shops = fail since Wow's blizzard store has been around for a long time (though the recent lvl 90 boost was the only real p2w feature).

The point I've been trying to get at with that is every P2P mmo that has attempted to add a cash shop has had to go F2P or shut down due to loss of subscriptions and the only reason WoW's been able to survive with a cash shop is because of the sheer amount of subscriptions it has combined with the fact that because almost every new mmo being released is essentially a clone of WoW with less content the players don't really have anywhere to go to if they leave WoW so they just put up with it. They're pretty much trapped there.

[Malamasala]

No these are not acceptable.

Care to attempt an argument in favor of your opinion?

Because from a business stand point, selling "catch up" to customers will bring in additional revenue and keep players around longer because they will not give up after being left behind. This is good for the customer and good for the company, which is win-win situation.

Of course, from a complainers point of view, you'd list things like:
- A person buying level 50 would ruin the game for everyone else because they'd have zero skill and kill everyone in dungeons.

But lets be honest here. Even if you leveled all classes to 50 on your own, and entered Titan Hard without reading up or watching a video, you'd die anyway. Skill or no skill, 99% of FF14 is learning each battle.