Dragoons need to be buffed...

[YanderePrincess]

Well a BLM/SMN has roughly 80% more magic defense than a DRG but a DRG does not have 80% more HP. The problem more or less lies in the way the encounters are designed to rarely have AOEs with physical dmg, making the advantage that DRG has in physical defense less relevant.

I have seen statistics showing DRGs on average losing roughly 71% life by AOEs, with other classes losing less.
Then on the other hand all mechanics that actually deal phyisical dmg, DRG is in a huge advantage, due to having higher HP on top of higher physical defense. Its just that they are far and few between.

There's more physical damage AoEs that people realize, though, especially among small pbaoe stuff. Though a lot of major physical damage AoEs are avoidable, i think, so that lessons the value of higher physical defense.

[Exstal]

Has nothing to do with what mandatory means. I used to be annoyed with positioning on DRG until I levelled monk. Now, the positioning on drg doesn't bother me in the slightest.

But you can just sit on the rear the entire time on Monk and never lose Greased Lightning stacks. Thus there is no mandatory positional for Monk. Now do that with Dragoon.

It's less annoying on Monk, but I haven't leveled Dragoon because that class looks boring. I only get sad when tank is spinning mobs and I lose DPS because of missed a positional but won't ever lose Greased Lightning from it.

[BlackThought]

The positionals on DRG are not mandatory for anything other than maximizing dps either.

Which is literally the reason you're there...

[Ricdeau]

How did this even turn into a pissing contest about positionals between Monk and Dragoon? It sucks a lot on both classes, and it's a pretty good DPS loss on BOTH classes.

[BlackThought]

How did this even turn into a pissing contest about positionals between Monk and Dragoon? It sucks a lot on both classes, and it's a pretty good DPS loss on BOTH classes.

I'll never understand the need for people to play the 'both sides' card in every debate. I don't agree at all w/ the OP but you cannot discuss equity or class balancing without discussing melee positionals.

[Ricdeau]

What's there to discuss though? It sucks for both Monk and Dragoon quite a bit if you are losing positionals. Neither can do optimal damage if they are missing positionals. There's nothing really to discuss or argue about it. Dragoon has less positionals with a higher penalty for missing those exact moves. Monk has more positionals with a lesser penalty, but more opportunities to miss them. In all honesty I can't really say that one has it worse than the other in this regard. I feel that it really weighs itself out in the end, and I would say the balance that the devs have struck between Monk and Dragoon shows that.

[BlackThought]

I don't disagree with a word of any of that.

[Lemon8or]

Monks have Mantra and Stun (AotD, One Ilm Punch for mobs).

Dragoon can have Mantra too, albeit weaker version since it's cross-class. AoTD/OIP, when do trash mobs even matter?

Bards have songs

2 of them (Paeon and Ballad) lowers their own DPS. Weren't for the songs, there would be no bards ever in a raid group.

Black Mages have Apocatastasis, (Sleep for mobs)

Apocastasis is only useful with Twintania Fireball and maybe turn 9 (idk, haven't put much time into it) but even then it's minor useful that you can heal through. As for mobs, look above in monk section.

Meanwhile Dragoons only have two stuns

Did you forget about the amount of burst Dragoons can bring to the table with their various cooldowns? Can I also have an aggro dump abilities like Elusive Jump and/or more mobilities from your Jumps? If your FC doesn't want to raid with you because you're a dragoon (this info from months ago before Dragoon got a buff) then time to update your info and/or find another FC.

What is surprising to me, is that the added effect of Boot Shine has not been brought into this conversation. If Dragoons had such an effect added to say Vorpal Thrust when under the effects of Dis and Heavy Thrust, yeah this would make the class much more balanced in terms of current DPS line ups.

I also play both Monk i100 and Dragoon i95 but I don't see how adding auto crit to Vorpal Thrust would make it balanced. Bootshine has 150 potency, required to hit from behind AND in opo-opo form to get auto crit while Vorpal Thrust has a combo potency of 200 (who would use it without True Thrust first?), no positional requirements with auto crit would be too OP followed by 330 potency Full Thrust.

[givemeraptors]

But you can just sit on the rear the entire time on Monk and never lose Greased Lightning stacks. Thus there is no mandatory positional for Monk. Now do that with Dragoon.

It's less annoying on Monk, but I haven't leveled Dragoon because that class looks boring. I only get sad when tank is spinning mobs and I lose DPS because of missed a positional but won't ever lose Greased Lightning from it.

>_>'

You're joking...right?

[Taleon]

While I agree the positional requirements for both classes are a pain compared to the non melee dps, they are not that difficult to where it kills the class.
Yes, I play both Monk and Dragoon. Yes, I have both of them geared though the Dragoon is a bit further at 104-105 and the Monk at 98. Both of them, are solid dps classes. I have cleared T9, so yes, I understand where both of them fall off in phase 4. The Monk, is a bit more forgiving in my opinion with that it does NOT require positioning to get the added buffs for GL and dmg buff from Twin, only maximizing the dmg output from a Monk.
What is surprising to me, is that the added effect of Boot Shine has not been brought into this conversation. If Dragoons had such an effect added to say Vorpal Thrust when under the effects of Dis and Heavy Thrust, yeah this would make the class much more balanced in terms of current DPS line ups.


Please do not use Dragoon Jumps btw as something better then Shoulder Tackle in terms of a gap closing mobility. I would give up my two gap closers to have the CD of Shoulder Tackle, even with the range requirement.