I obviously know more about your class than you do, play how I tell you.

[Kat_Manx]

Quite amusing that most people think that people are given "gentle advice" and then they "react poorly."

My own experience is usually some random idiot yelling rude words at everyone in the party and then quitting in rage, and once a new party member arrives we finish the dungeon in a swift matter, leaving only one logical conclusion: If we died when the raging maniac was there, but not after he left, it was in fact he who sucked.

[KiraVaela]

"I take advice when I ask."

This is the problem, right here. This is why you are so surprised why people are not nodding to your initial "moral elitist" rant as you expected. Remove this approach and become a better person.

[Spyrit]

You do realize, those that choose not to listen, is the result of the toxic and abusive behavior they have already encountered? Bullying, to put it bluntly, has negative consequences, those consequences lead to a complete and total rejection of any advice given, even if given politely. A coping mechanism to bullying, is shutting down. And regardless if the advice is civil or not, the person has already learned, the best way to protect one's dignity in a pug situation, is to shut down entirely.

[ispano]

You do realize, those that choose not to listen, is the result of the toxic and abusive behavior they have already encountered? Bullying, to put it bluntly, has negative consequences, those consequences lead to a complete and total rejection of any advice given, even if given politely.

And that's a problem with that individual, not the person trying to help.

[Odett]

You do realize, those that choose not to listen, is the result of the toxic and abusive behavior they have already encountered? Bullying, to put it bluntly, has negative consequences, those consequences lead to a complete and total rejection of any advice given, even if given politely. A coping mechanism to bullying, is shutting down. And regardless if the advice is civil or not, the person has already learned, the best way to protect one's dignity in a pug situation, is to shut down entirely.

"I'm going to ignore you/respond rudely because someone else was mean to me." That kind of attitude is counterproductive in any setting, whether it be real life or games.

Bullying is all too real and can be extremely harmful to the victim, but indefinitely shutting yourself down to others is not the answer, and neither is it healthy.

[Lumidus]

This reminds me of that LB thread and some people choosing not to LB because a party member typed "lb" in the chat.

[RaquelleAvarosa]

I always prioritize dps than tanks in pre 50 dungeons cuz any class with decent synced hp/gear can tank all mobs/ bosses.
If tanks start telling me how to play my job while not playing his i'll gladly disregard anything he says as i ran once with a tank who didn't use any defence/ hp buff skills till the last boss in tam.
But what got me was when he said can you not dps and use fluid aura.
I was like speechless, a tank telling me how to play yet he's not even playing his class right.
I trolled him a few times by using medica once and easily ripping hate lol.
On the last boss i let him die and made him rage on about how the group was going to wipe.
As if! He got pissed at the end when we beat it and said
" learn to play your job and in a party "
I was like lol naw just chill

As a healer myself, I think you're really being an a**hole.

[Spyrit]

snip.

Like it or not, that is a coping mechanism, and it's highly flawed to blame the coping mechanism, rather than dealing with the toxic behavior that started it. Bullying is a form of abuse, period. People cope in different ways, you don't validate the abuse, by attacking the coping mechanism, that solves nothing. Preservation of human dignity in game or real life, is a necessity for the well being of humans. Any expert in behavior biology will tell you this. Humans utilize the social mode when they feel safe in any environment virtual or real, this is scientifically proven.

If you want social mode in a human, break the ice with humor, pleasant conversation, make a human feel safe, don't engage an environment of hostility, you won't get anywheres.

[ispano]

Like it or not, that is a coping mechanism, and it's highly flawed to blame the coping mechanism, rather than dealing with the toxic behavior that started it. Bullying is a form of abuse, period. People cope in different ways, you don't validate the abuse, by attacking the coping mechanism, that solves nothing. Preservation of human dignity in game or real life, is a necessity for the well being of humans. Any expert in behavior biology will tell you this. Humans utilize the social mode when they feel safe in any environment virtual or real, this is scientifically proven.

If you want social mode in a human, break the ice with humor, pleasant conversation, make a human feel safe, don't engage an environment of hostility, you won't get anywheres.

It doesn't matter though. Is the person who harassed them in the first place wrong? Sure. But the problem is that the way they're coping is causing problems for MORE people. It's not validating the abuse in the slightest, it's about not continuing the problem by dealing with it properly. Just because they are a victim, doesn't mean they are free from repercussion and/or criticism.

[Spyrit]

snip

Humans have three modes, when we feel threatened (and we feel threatened when we don't feel safe) we will only engage one of two, reptilian thinking ( shutting down, unresponsiveness) lower mammalian, fight or flight, or the higher mammalian (primate) social mode, social mode cannot be engaged, unless the human feels safe in an environment, if the environment to a player has been proven to be hostile, one of two modes will be engaged, unless the other players in the group prove otherwise, you can't take the environment out of the human, past experience is what evolves humans, even on a minor scale.

I'll give you an example player A, had 5 dungeon runs, in every run there was infighting and hostility, not always directed at player A, some, but not always, so this player has decided to either shut down, or flight or fight, for every pug run they do. Player B, has 2 runs that were hostile, 3 that were pleasant, yet when engaging a pug, they are in fight or flight mode, until proven otherwise. Player C had 5 very pleasant groups, is willing to take advice and carry it out and betters themselves as a player.

The moral of that scenario, humans can't learn when they feel threatened, not even in the least, humans are only capable of learning while in social mode, and there's no getting around that.