So no buff till 2.3... how about a compromise to tide us over?

[Zencurse]

In response to Richi:

You are not the only person to have made this argument, and people may consider this a rant, however I ask people to read the following objectively.

One thing I'm beginning to get tired of, is people constantly trying to put BLMs down as not being allowed to have good single target because they have good AOE.
Look, if there are fights at the endgame (SRs, do not, I repeat, do not count) where having good AOE is a plus then this is 'ok' design. However due to the nature of the 2nd coil Black Mages are constantly punished for the way their job is designed and as such made to have to work much harder to do competitive dps AND on top of that we are near the bottom of the single target hierarchy. Its due in part to this fact that Black Mages need to be reworked.

As a second point, people like to point out that, due to being able to cross class utility spells, Black Mages don't need the best single target (and I again I do not argue for best single target, but rather at least as much as a SMN). I would point out that any cross class utility spells a Black Mage can use, a Summoner receives a much better version (Eye for an Eye, Virus, etc). The only "utility" BLM brings to the table is Manawall/Ward that prevents some damage to themselves when used properly and eases the job of the healers. While this effect is useful, it pales in comparison to the SMN's vastly superior utility and ability to bring a battle rez (the only DPS class to be able to do so).

So, which "weighs" more? Black Mages superior AOE? Or SMN's ability to rez and utility? As, due to SE's current design, utility and positioning seems to dictate DPS. To see evidence of this, I refer to Bard and Monks/Dragoons. Bards, due to their massive mobility and utility have the lowest single target potential. In contrast, Monks and Dragoons due to the nature of them being melee and having relatively less utility than a SMN or Bard (Disembowel and Mantra don't come close to songs and brez) are capable of higher single target potential than the other classes. So, if SE's design is based around balancing single target DPS around how much "work" a class must go through to do dps and how much utility they bring to the table, then it is in my opinion that the devs MUST concede that due to Black Mages lower utility (AOE is NOT utility, and is currently underutilized to even come close to being considered on the level of a SMN brez) and our dependency on standing still (scathe is not a viable option) that Black Mage DPS should either be reworked or reverted back to its pre 2.1 state, and in addition, made equivalent to Summoner DPS at the very least until AOE is made more required for endgame raiding content.

As a final note, I'd like to remind people, that Yoshi playing a Black Mage is NOT a valid argument against Black Mages not needing a buff. The fact that he plays a Black Mage does not necessarily means he's biased in class balancing, it's his job to in fact, be impartial. While I may be capable of waiting until 2.3 for Black Mage reworks, the wording of the last live letter worries me. A "slight" buff (though admittedly this could be a translation issue) does not bode well for Black Mages. Especially when we are close to 15-20% below SMN in single target DPS when at it's most conservative (by conservative, I mean keeping with the current status quo that SMN deals more than BLM and not equal) it should be no more than 5-7%.

The Black Mage requires attention right now. And while I understand the devs stance on keeping a status quo in class balancing, the Black Mage right now requires a lot of help as a job. Our DEFINING FEATURE, that is to say our AOE dps, is currently at its most useful in content well below the raiding endgame. SRs are not enough, either make Black Mage's single target equivalent to Summoners, or make our AOE useful in the endgame.

EDIT: As a note, I did not reference the fact we have strong burst DPS. This is because Burst is a form of DPS, not a plus or job defining feature. "Burst" dps should essentially mean, while our DPS is similar to other jobs while sustained, we have moments where our DPS dips heavily and moments where our DPS is much higher. However when evened out, this comes out to about the same as other jobs.

[Kenji1134]

On the topic of "burst" dps.

I've been playing TERA lately, need something to do between ATMA grinds, as a Sorcerer. That class, especially past lvl 48, is the definition of burst.
Sorc has 3 attacks which are slow, but practically 5-10 times stronger than their more spammable moves.
Now at 48, they get a buff which essentially cuts their cast time in half, 15 second duration, 25 second recast.

So what you end up with is a class that at the start of the fight will position itself (since its most powerful attacks require them to stand still), throw on its casting speed buff, super-nuke 1, buff A, buff B, super-nuke 2 +50% due to buffs A & B, super-nuke 3, filler, filler, filler, super-nuke 2 (finally refreshed)... Casting speed buff end... If ANYTHING is left standing, the Sorc now spends the next 10 seconds basically standing there and regenerating mana.

2 things to note.
The 3 "super-nuke" moves really are super-nukes. They are among the hardest hitting attacks in the game, where the first one doubles your crit rate for 4 seconds, and the second one is an aoe that just levels everything short of a boss in one hit.
The filler attacks are fairly mobile, they are instant, though they do put you in a brief animation lock. But thats fine, since a good 80-90% of the damage of this rotation is in the super-nukes.

IDK... if that could be a possible answer for BLM. Much like tank aggro is ~63% backloaded on the 3rd combo hit (RoH or BB), then if BLM is being "designed" as a "burst" dps, then it should have the bulk of its potency attached to a particular attack that comes with a moderate cooldown, like 10-15s.

The flaw with that kind of design would be what happens after the burst... next to nothing. Granted our current situation is similar, where we do ~2x more damage in AF than in UI, and often come to a dead stop for a bit when we go into UI. But in this example, the burst would be concentrated more on a single ability, most likely set of abilities, rather than on a lasting buff.

Basically we could rework the BLM Job abilities, remove Apoc, and let us have Freeze - Burst - Flare.
All 3 would deal progressively more damage, be decoupled from AF/UI, or maybe have Freeze attached to UI, Burst is decoupled, and Flare is attached to AF.

Freeze would be a 2.5s cast, 15s recast, 500 max potency.
Burst is instant, 15s recast, 400 initial + 300 dot potency (60 x 5 ticks).
Flare would be a 2.5s cast, 15s recast, 900 potency, still aoe.

But that would wreck blm aoe... Well lets buff Fire 2 to 120 potency, and add a trait where Swiftcast also refreshed the CD on Freeze - Burst - Flare.

---
Just something that popped into my head.

[AmyNeudaiz]

I got a better idea: make BLM like it was in 1.23 but with better MP management skills.
Thunder = single target
Fire = AoE
Blizzard = filler
Problem solved.

[Kenji1134]

I got a better idea: make BLM like it was in 1.23 but with better MP management skills.
Thunder = single target
Fire = AoE
Blizzard = filler
Problem solved.

Wouldnt that turn us into Pikachu for most raid content?

[AmyNeudaiz]

Wouldnt that turn us into Pikachu for most raid content?

They used almost all their spells in 1.23 so I couldn't imagine why

[Xisin]

Wouldnt that turn us into Pikachu for most raid content?

Well we are charmander right now

[Riichi]

One thing I'm beginning to get tired of, is people constantly trying to put BLMs down as not being allowed to have good single target because they have good AOE.

I have no problem with BLM having good single target to go with excellent AOE. The problem is that right now many BLM's wanting a buff are comparing themselves to SMN. The problem isn't that BLM's are weak, it's that there's an imbalance between BLM and SMN where SMN has raid utility and better single target DPS. I agree this should be adjusted and they should balance out the utility/dps between those 2 classes. But now put yourself in the shoes of a MNK or DRG and compare it to a BLM. They're really not too far behind in dps, even on fights like T8. Getting any moderate buff to BLM single target is going to make MNKs and DRGs irrelevant again. People saying ridiculous things like stacking Fire III procs is the way to balance BLM make me absolutely sick. All they need to do is slightly nerf SMN single target, maybe by lowering Ruin damage or Egi base damage slightly, and then buff Fire I slightly as well.

[Sleigh]

I have no problem with BLM having good single target to go with excellent AOE. The problem is that right now many BLM's wanting a buff are comparing themselves to SMN. The problem isn't that BLM's are weak, it's that there's an imbalance between BLM and SMN where SMN has raid utility and better single target DPS. I agree this should be adjusted and they should balance out the utility/dps between those 2 classes. But now put yourself in the shoes of a MNK or DRG and compare it to a BLM. They're really not too far behind in dps, even on fights like T8. Getting any moderate buff to BLM single target is going to make MNKs and DRGs irrelevant again. People saying ridiculous things like stacking Fire III procs is the way to balance BLM make me absolutely sick. All they need to do is slightly nerf SMN single target, maybe by lowering Ruin damage or Egi base damage slightly, and then buff Fire I slightly as well.

Well, people aren't stacking 3-4 SMNs right now so I don't think MNK or DRG would at all be irrelevant if BLM were closer to SMN's ST DPS. Back in 2.0, what you're referring to I assume, SMN was quite a bit stronger due to Thunder, BRD and BLM were about 5-10% stronger than now, and MNK and DRG had much less damage. Not to mention, Virus was able to be stacked from casters, which was godly (imagining no Virus limitation in T9 would be ridiculous). Groups stacked ranged with one melee mainly for LB3 purposes. Now that all the ranged are a little nerfed and melee became easily the strongest DPS, I don't think we need to worry at all about the ranged vs melee balance to change with a small buff to the weaker of the two casters.

[PArcher]

melee became easily the strongest DPS

Except that's not entirely true. Top DPS may be MNK (single-target kings who were honestly overbuffed in 2.1), but SMN is next (who isn't that far behind, especially when multi-dotting is possible), then DRG (BRD buffer mostly, but also the best at burst), then BLM (AoE king with good burst), then BRD (who's there for support more than DPS, but necessary nonetheless).

Do BLM need a buff for single-target? I won't argue against a buff, but its not something major that needs to happen, especially if you don't want AoE to be touched. I can see Fire/Bliz/Fire3/Bliz3/ThunderX getting slight potency buffs (10-20) and that's it, which will increase single-target damage. Is it what you want, though? I mean, so many people wanting Surecast to turn you into a BRD for a cast or the duration, or stacking procs...but either of those would require that the melees both be buffed (Surecast change esp, since that would apply to ALL casters, unless they remove it as cross-class, which then they'd have to add another skill in its place...), and by quite a bit...which is something I'm sure none of you want (face it, most people asking for buffs and nerfs are very selfish, and want their role to be the best, hands-down).
DRG also needs a slight buff to bring them closer to MNK-DPS level, and BRD could use a tiny something (again, nothing major for either, BRD esp), but that's a discussion for another time. Also don't forget that the Egi are being rebalanced, which could end up buffing or nerfing SMN (or both).

[Madoka]

stuff

Make my Bane hit unlimited targets and refresh my dots more often and deal. If not you can skip off with that mess.