Leviathan's Wipe at 20%?

[dejavutwo]

This isn't an example of dps doing well, this is an example of bad players. I suppose you think it's unfair to punish people who blow up ifrits nails all at the same time. It's an intended mechanic just like everything else. You just showed that you are a bad player.

That is the exact opposite of what I said. I explained myself further in post #17. What makes Ifrit's nails exploding and killing people a good mechanic, is that it is a visible mechanic with a clear goal and consequences. I would also point out that it pretty much identical to Leviathan X spumes, which in the quoted post I gave as an example of a good DPS control mechanic. Leviathan wiping a group at 20% is more akin to Ifrit jumping early on the last set of nails than to killing the nails.

Specific mechanics that can be seen and accounted for are good, sudden wipes with no warning are bad.

[UBERHAXED]

That is the exact opposite of what I said. I explained myself further in post #17. What makes Ifrit's nails exploding and killing people a good mechanic, is that it is a visible mechanic with a clear goal and consequences. I would also point out that it pretty much identical to Leviathan X spumes, which in the quoted post I gave as an example of a good DPS control mechanic. Leviathan wiping a group at 20% is more akin to Ifrit jumping early on the last set of nails than to killing the nails.

Specific mechanics that can be seen and accounted for are good, sudden wipes with no warning are bad.

I'm pretty sure that you suddenly wipe everything you die to a mechanic you haven't seen before (because it's a new fight). Once (or if, since you may not be that good of a player) you figure out what wiped you, then you deal with the mechanic just like every other mechanic in the game. I suppose you are going to say that twisters are unfair now?

[Raenryong]

I'm pretty sure that you suddenly wipe everything you die to a mechanic you haven't seen before (because it's a new fight). Once (or if, since you may not be that good of a player) you figure out what wiped you, then you deal with the mechanic just like every other mechanic in the game. I suppose you are going to say that twisters are unfair now?

His/her point which you are appearing to be missing is this:

Ifrit Nails: vulnerability stacks gained and damage taken when you blow them up! If you explode too many at once, instant wipe. However, the cause is easily discernible and can be avoided in future.
Leviathan Spumes: damage taken when exploded, generally not a good idea to do so during Tidal Roars. The cause of any wipe is easily discernible and is as simple as not killing them too early.
Twintania Twisters: Visual indicator on Twintania (cast bar). Behaviour to dodge must be discerned, but there is a visual indicator on the ground where they have been laid afterwards too (and the pattern can be worked out simply by noting Twister spawn locations, if their behaviour was not already common knowledge. No external information is required to deal with this mechanic.
Leviathan autokill: Reduce Leviathan below an arbitrary percentage of HP and he instantly wipes you. It is not possible to discern his current HP% without third party tool use, which is illegal as per TOS.

You could also try being less obnoxious.

[UBERHAXED]

Twintania Twisters: Visual indicator on Twintania (cast bar). Behaviour to dodge must be discerned, but there is a visual indicator on the ground where they have been laid afterwards too (and the pattern can be worked out simply by noting Twister spawn locations, if their behaviour was not already common knowledge. No external information is required to deal with this mechanic.
Leviathan autokill: Reduce Leviathan below an arbitrary percentage of HP and he instantly wipes you. It is not possible to discern his current HP% without third party tool use, which is illegal as per TOS.

You don't have to know the percentage. Just that he does it at some unknown conditions until you eventually figure it out (like every fight in the game). And seeing as almost all moves have a cast bar, I hope that was a joke about the "visual" indicators for twisters. You will certainly wipe guaranteed the first time you did turn 5 with no prior knowledge. You will continue to wipe at twisters until you eventually find out how they work. Just like having nothing to do with knowing twintania will jump at 55% regardless of there being conflagrations out or not. You don't need to know the percentage to get past % based mechanics. Wanting an excuse to use illegal software is what you're fishing for. And yes, back in September, turn 5 mechanics were not common knowledge.

[Raenryong]

Okay, so let's say I do twenty Levi EX runs.

He autokills us in about twelve of them. Now, say that nobody in this group is using third party software. Our only conclusion is that "he seems to kill you if you do too much dps, maybe at about 20-25%?" - so what are DPS supposed to do, just literally do nothing in that whole phase after the spumes die? This is not reasonable (unless we use third party tools of course... where it's still poor design, but at least we can handle it).

Twisters are visual. Twintania has a cast bar. You can see it. You don't need any third party tools to deal with Twister. Also, this is not September, so I'm not sure how that is relevant.

You cannot accurately tell 20% on Levi's HP bar without a third party tool.

Also, you seem to be strawmanning us as saying "all mechanics which oneshot are bad design" when our argument is "raid-wiping mechanics which have no reasonable legally-visible pattern or predictable features are bad design".

[UBERHAXED]

so what are DPS supposed to do.

Get better...
The HP bar is not invisible. If you played the fight for 12 times I'm sure you'd notice that around the same point the same thing happened (or not, if you're a complete idiot). Just get better at recognizing the point were is close to wipe conditions (appearently your claim is that you are ahead in the fight, not behind so stopping dps for a while won't hurt you). Also, September compared to game launch is the same period of time of now compared to 2.2 launch. Obviously the fight has been out for more than half a year and the mechanics are well know. Difference is back then, people didn't share strategies (for turn 5 since no one beat it), so you had to figure it out yourself.

[Bellybell]

Get better...

DPS need to get better as to not DPSing? what logic is this

well, DPS need to adapt, ofc, but that doesn't make this mechanic less stupid as it's punishing players who did better than the Dev's thought
just think about when ilv even higher than this and there may be even more stupidity like this surfaced more and more

[dejavutwo]

I'm pretty sure that you suddenly wipe everything you die to a mechanic you haven't seen before (because it's a new fight). Once (or if, since you may not be that good of a player) you figure out what wiped you, then you deal with the mechanic just like every other mechanic in the game. I suppose you are going to say that twisters are unfair now?

Twisters have a cast, fail to move, and you die. Visible mechanic. Every mechanic has to be learned, and dying is part of that learning process. The problem with the Leviathan X/Ifrit early jump is that unlike other mechanics, it does not have a clear beginning, end, and consequence. I don't know about you, but I certainly can not tell the difference between 20% and 22% on the boss's HP bar.

[UBERHAXED]

Twisters have a cast, fail to move, and you die. Visible mechanic. Every mechanic has to be learned, and dying is part of that learning process. The problem with the Leviathan X/Ifrit early jump is that unlike other mechanics, it does not have a clear beginning, end, and consequence. I don't know about you, but I certainly can not tell the difference between 20% and 22% on the boss's HP bar.

Did you figure out how you wiped (got to a % before a point in the fight)? If so, then stop bitching and deal with it like every other mechanic. Once you get skilled enough to know when you are close, then you are skilled enough to pass the mechanic.