Feedback Regarding the Relic Upgrade Quest

[Raenryong]

Please no. Twin sure but the EX primals no thanks.

Why not? Alternative progression path which doesn't require you to commit to a static group. Perfect for a more casual (but competitive) weapon, I feel - still requires a good amount of competence to achieve, no RNG, and still difficult enough that not everyone will have the upgraded forms.

[Roris]

Should have made unique challenges, like say Atma of the Water Bearer = defeat 100-1000 of the highest level water type enemies, after showing proof to What'shisface in Gerolt's place he'll give you a special key item you need to use on a random shiny point that spawns in a certain region and the spawn point changes every hour or so, it spawns a strong enemy that needs a full party to defeat as in a real 8 man unlike peisteskin maps which can be done with chocobos, everyone in the party needs the special item in their inventory to get their Atma, enemy spawns just for your party. Guess that was just too hard to implement.

[BobtheBlackMage]

I'll just put it here, but I enjoyed my Atma grind. Ran into a bunch of people I haven't seen in awhile, felt fantastic when I got an Atma, watched other people finally get their Paragon robes. Looking forward to working on my second one.

[Mitternacht]

1) Top down action RPGs like Diablo and Path of Exile, by this argument, should be the least popular games ever and not sell at all. Top tier loot is based entirely on RNG, and that's all the game has. No other progression options. But these are some of the most popular RPGs today.

Yes, it's totally not like they have any redeeming gameplay value otherwise (that's sarcasm for the sarcasm impaired). Path of Exile's popularity could have nothing at all to do with it being a decent *free* Diablo clone. Blizzard totally didn't completely revamp Diablo 3's loot system in Reaper of Souls to address the loot system being random in a un-fun way.

I would also like to point out in games with similar loot systems as Diablo, drops are pretty high frequency. Typically the quality of said drops are little more than vendor trash or not even worth picking up, however rarely you get something nice and even rarer you get something amazing. But the important thing is the player does stuff, things HAPPEN. There is feedback. This is where the RNG implementation of Atma fails.

Even now people have voodoo beliefs and uncertainty about how it works.

2) Allagan will always be slightly better or equal to Relic. Invest your time into coil (btw, c2 turns 1 and 2 can be done in i90, fyi) and get that. Might take the same amount of time to get an i115 weapon as it does fate grinding, and its better. Which leads to......

Given you can just buy item level 100 gear from a vendor with currency you can acquire with very straight-forward non-raid content, the hoop jumping for an item level 100 weapon from non-raid content is rather absurd. Especially if it may not even compare favorably.

There are a number of alternative implementations that could have both throttled rate of completion, given people a sense of progression, and provided actual interesting gameplay and challenge. Judging from what we actually got, it is unlikely they had the development resources to do so. It was probably one designer (to do the quest scripting) and 1-2 artist (to do the textures and any other art assets that weren't just reused from somewhere else).

[SongJoohee]

100 pages and still no response from Square Enix.

[Heat]

100 pages and still no response from Square Enix.

In any other game a Dev. would come here and say something.

[Ramesses]

Here's my problem with the Atma FATEs... I don't mind the grind at all; I already learnt how to like grinding during my old FFXI days. I've been at 11/12 since Thursday night and I've been glancing at this thread on and off for almost four days, trying to be unbiased and understand what the heck is up with this Atma thing.

What really peeves me off is that you actually put in an immense amount of effort to get the bloody Atma and still have nothing to show for it. Allow me to explain:

• You camp the zone for hours staring intently at your map
• Fate pops... you race there
• You manage to actually be the one to initiate the FATE
• You hurriedly gather 30+ items to turn in to the NPC
• Fate ends... you hold your breath...
• And even though it gives you your 27th successful gold medal of the day, you still dont get an Atma

As you teleport back to camp (muttering colourful words at your screen) you begin to get even more frustrated because you have been making a a very involved and heroic contribution to the fates. This is exactly where the problem lies... and why this thread is now 100 pages long.

Now back to my main point... the AI should be sophisticated enough to recognize that a player has been in a certain zone for four or five hours straight (or has been actively been involved in FATES in that area for the last two days). Thus, what would be ideal is that it sequentially begins to gradually adjust based on time vested or active contribution and increase the drop rates for that player.

Honestly, another thing that would have been ideal is that the Atma-Fates were unique and directly related to some lore related to the Twelve... but that's another separate argument. For now, I completely understand the idea for the FATEs to be one of the methods of getting the Atma... and it is completely understandable that the Devs are using this Atma-hunt to try and activate dormant or empty zones with players (afterall, no Developer likes to see areas that they spent months creating to be suddenly devoid of players within a few weeks). But now, this is just atrocious. Since patch day, many of us have been trying various things in the hopes that the drop rates would improve... and here are just a basic few:

• Stay in the area for several hours and dont teleport out
• Get 20+ gold medals
• Turn in a ridiculous amount of items for turn-in type FATEs (where applicable)
• Be the one to initiate the FATE (where applicable)
• Be in a full party for at least 10 FATEs
• Play solo for at least 10 FATEs
• Complete all quests in the area

And STILL... the Atma drops are so random that it begins to get unnecessarily tedious. The idea should be that your time is being invested towards achieving something... and not just hoping for dumb luck to see you through twelve of these.

/ends rant and wanders back to do more FATEs

[Arkista]

1000 post........

[SirTaint]

8/12 my biggest problem is that ATMA farming is all I do. I log in and grind. Grind sol to 450, grind ATMA. That's been my experience since 2.2. I know I don't have to, but let's face it most MMO players play for the gear it's an obsession.

[LilithMakyomo]

Yes, it's totally not like they have any redeeming gameplay value otherwise (that's sarcasm for the sarcasm impaired). Path of Exile's popularity could have nothing at all to do with it being a decent *free* Diablo clone. Blizzard totally didn't completely revamp Diablo 3's loot system in Reaper of Souls to address the loot system being random in a un-fun way.

I would also like to point out in games with similar loot systems as Diablo, drops are pretty high frequency. Typically the quality of said drops are little more than vendor trash or not even worth picking up, however rarely you get something nice and even rarer you get something amazing. But the important thing is the player does stuff, things HAPPEN. There is feedback. This is where the RNG implementation of Atma fails.

So that's like saying vendor trash = fate drops (like sinews and dodo feathers), gold = gil + seals, and something amazing = atmas. Thank you for proving my point there. When I fate grind, things happpen too, lol.

Given you can just buy item level 100 gear from a vendor with currency you can acquire with very straight-forward non-raid content, the hoop jumping for an item level 100 weapon from non-raid content is rather absurd. Especially if it may not even compare favorably.

Then don't do it. Literally the simplest answer that no one ever wants to hear. If you can get a weapon that is better WHY DO YOU CARE??