Feedback Regarding the Relic Upgrade Quest

[LilithMakyomo]

Literally every single person complaining about atmas falls into at least one of 3 categories. 1) Grinding needs a set goal no matter how high it is (which I'm sure if the system was that way they'd complain about that too). 2) This is the be all, end all weapon and I want it. 3) I don't have the time for this, or the group for Levi/Coil. I will address each of these.

1) Top down action RPGs like Diablo and Path of Exile, by this argument, should be the least popular games ever and not sell at all. Top tier loot is based entirely on RNG, and that's all the game has. No other progression options. But these are some of the most popular RPGs today.

2) Allagan will always be slightly better or equal to Relic. Invest your time into coil (btw, c2 turns 1 and 2 can be done in i90, fyi) and get that. Might take the same amount of time to get an i115 weapon as it does fate grinding, and its better. Which leads to......

[Mitternacht]

1) Top down action RPGs like Diablo and Path of Exile, by this argument, should be the least popular games ever and not sell at all. Top tier loot is based entirely on RNG, and that's all the game has. No other progression options. But these are some of the most popular RPGs today.

Yes, it's totally not like they have any redeeming gameplay value otherwise (that's sarcasm for the sarcasm impaired). Path of Exile's popularity could have nothing at all to do with it being a decent *free* Diablo clone. Blizzard totally didn't completely revamp Diablo 3's loot system in Reaper of Souls to address the loot system being random in a un-fun way.

I would also like to point out in games with similar loot systems as Diablo, drops are pretty high frequency. Typically the quality of said drops are little more than vendor trash or not even worth picking up, however rarely you get something nice and even rarer you get something amazing. But the important thing is the player does stuff, things HAPPEN. There is feedback. This is where the RNG implementation of Atma fails.

Even now people have voodoo beliefs and uncertainty about how it works.

2) Allagan will always be slightly better or equal to Relic. Invest your time into coil (btw, c2 turns 1 and 2 can be done in i90, fyi) and get that. Might take the same amount of time to get an i115 weapon as it does fate grinding, and its better. Which leads to......

Given you can just buy item level 100 gear from a vendor with currency you can acquire with very straight-forward non-raid content, the hoop jumping for an item level 100 weapon from non-raid content is rather absurd. Especially if it may not even compare favorably.

There are a number of alternative implementations that could have both throttled rate of completion, given people a sense of progression, and provided actual interesting gameplay and challenge. Judging from what we actually got, it is unlikely they had the development resources to do so. It was probably one designer (to do the quest scripting) and 1-2 artist (to do the textures and any other art assets that weren't just reused from somewhere else).

[LilithMakyomo]

Yes, it's totally not like they have any redeeming gameplay value otherwise (that's sarcasm for the sarcasm impaired). Path of Exile's popularity could have nothing at all to do with it being a decent *free* Diablo clone. Blizzard totally didn't completely revamp Diablo 3's loot system in Reaper of Souls to address the loot system being random in a un-fun way.

I would also like to point out in games with similar loot systems as Diablo, drops are pretty high frequency. Typically the quality of said drops are little more than vendor trash or not even worth picking up, however rarely you get something nice and even rarer you get something amazing. But the important thing is the player does stuff, things HAPPEN. There is feedback. This is where the RNG implementation of Atma fails.

So that's like saying vendor trash = fate drops (like sinews and dodo feathers), gold = gil + seals, and something amazing = atmas. Thank you for proving my point there. When I fate grind, things happpen too, lol.

Given you can just buy item level 100 gear from a vendor with currency you can acquire with very straight-forward non-raid content, the hoop jumping for an item level 100 weapon from non-raid content is rather absurd. Especially if it may not even compare favorably.

Then don't do it. Literally the simplest answer that no one ever wants to hear. If you can get a weapon that is better WHY DO YOU CARE??

[Mitternacht]

So that's like saying vendor trash = fate drops (like sinews and dodo feathers), gold = gil + seals, and something amazing = atmas. Thank you for proving my point there. When I fate grind, things happpen too, lol.

They have nothing to do with Atma. All those things would happen whether you had the quest or not and none of them happen with the frequency of the loot systems of the games you mentioned. Nevermind the fact that you can affect drop rates in those games via difficulty settings and grouping or that Reaper of Souls dramatically moved away from throwing streams of useless junk at the player.

Then don't do it. Literally the simplest answer that no one ever wants to hear. If you can get a weapon that is better WHY DO YOU CARE??

Personally, I am not touching it. However in terms of an alternate progression path it is incredibly poor game design.

[ArcFinix]

Literally every single person complaining about atmas falls into at least one of 3 categories. 1) Grinding needs a set goal no matter how high it is (which I'm sure if the system was that way they'd complain about that too). 2) This is the be all, end all weapon and I want it. 3) I don't have the time for this, or the group for Levi/Coil. I will address each of these.

1) Top down action RPGs like Diablo and Path of Exile, by this argument, should be the least popular games ever and not sell at all. Top tier loot is based entirely on RNG, and that's all the game has. No other progression options. But these are some of the most popular RPGs today.

2) Allagan will always be slightly better or equal to Relic. Invest your time into coil (btw, c2 turns 1 and 2 can be done in i90, fyi) and get that. Might take the same amount of time to get an i115 weapon as it does fate grinding, and its better. Which leads to......

1) those are action RPG, u are smashing and killing with a few buttons and maybe avoid some aoes... of course with lots of loots with a chance of best gear or better gear.. this is fate farming that.. u do nothing but spam 1 button and spam another 1 button maybe..

2) some ppl are collector or just wanna have a personal achievement.. yes allagan is better so what? levi weapon is better so what? they just want to get everything for show? don't need to teach ppl how they want to progress..

3) i don't have time to play a grind game that is unfair.. but i have time to enjoy a mmo.. time is not yours to decide..