Crafting Needs a Place in Endgame Raiding

[Sunarie]

So, because people already do it, we should add in additional reasons? All so crafters can make gil? Sorry, but you making gil isn't worth gating content even more than it already is. What you're suggesting would make the community worse all to make crafters happy. Not a good trade off.

How is providing an alternative gear source further gating anything off? If anything it's adding more players to the mix. This is not BiS stuff we're talking here.. heck, even knowing that fully melded crafted gear is -better- than DL in a lot of cases, groups don't require the crafted gear. You're throwing up an argument about something that isn't going to happen.

If crafted gear is equivalent to what you can buy with tomes it only provides another option. Players are in no way forced to buy it anymore than players were forced to buy crafted gear instead of DL gear back when crafted gear actually sold with any consistency. Heck, now crafted gear is actually really cheap (the 2-star stuff).. and people still just jump straight to tome gear, even though the crafted stuff can be better melded. The only way people would end up forced to buy it is if it was significantly better than tome gear (which I don't see anyone asking for, most aren't even asking for BiS and out of those that are, most don't want to sell the BiS stuff on the market, they want it to be bound somehow).

I don't get yelled at cause I'm wearing myth earrings when the allagan ones are technically BiS. As long as I meet accuracy requirements to hit the things I'm tanking people don't really care (save for maybe Turn 4 and 5, and even then I've not once had anyone question me about gear choices regardless of which ilvl 90 things I swap around). The ilvl excuse for excluding already exists. Crafted items are not going to make that problem worse.

It doesn't really sound like you're interested in any semblance of balance in end game type stuff with the economy, that also provides more options. It more sounds like you don't like the idea of people having gil.

[Versiroth]

Snip

You will be able to craft i90 gear. Which is the equivalent of Myth or BC 1-5. That's not good enough? You really think you should be able to craft 100 gear? Which will be the ilvl of Soldiery tome gear? How can you not see the problem with that? So, I can grind for two weeks for 1 piece of soldiery gear or I can RMT my way into a full set of i100 crafted, meld it and be done with everything but BC 6-9! Seriously.... it has nothing to do with you "having gil". It's the fact that you don't seem to care if your ability to make gil will completely destroy the game.

[Sunarie]

You will be able to craft i90 gear. Which is the equivalent of Myth or BC. That's not good enough? You really think you should be able to craft 100 gear? Which will be the ilvl of Soldiery tome gear? How can you not see the problem with that? So, I can grind for two weeks for 1 piece of soldiery gear or I can RMT my way into a full set of i100 crafted, meld it and be done with everything but BC 6-9! Seriously.... it has nothing to do with you "having gil". It's the fact that you don't seem to care if you're ability to make gil will completely destroy the game.

Or, you can RMT and buy runs through things to get the gear too (you get tomes for those runs -plus- whatever items). Seriously, using RMT as an excuse doesn't work. You can mind-numblingly run dungeons with little to no effort to get soldiery gear too (I assure you the dungeons aren't really going to take effort and wipes and work once they've been out for a while). Horizontal progression doesn't destroy the game. At all. RMTers might, but that hardly has to do with crafting and items.

Having the equivalent of myth now is basically the same as having the equivalent of Philo.. it's useless. Crafting (for the very large part) in this game is useless. Heck, even the high end foods for culinary (the 2-star stuff) is currently useless. I also, just for the record, don't think ANY tome gear should be BiS. People like you don't seem to have a problem with that though. It's fine to put very little effort into getting tomes and get a BiS item, but when someone puts effort into earning gil to legitimately buy an item they somehow don't deserve it (and shame on the crafter for selling it!). There are MMOs that have crafting with gear that is very near to BiS.. and those games aren't broken or destroyed by that gear.

You're the one throwing around some scenario where people have to buy the stuff, or pretending RMTers don't already get gear for gil as is (even though the Coil, HM, and EX runs I've seen being sold beg to differ). The case you're trying to make, doesn't work. Having multiple gear choices is good.

Because the game should be about the skill in running *all* content, not the skill in hitting the "Make HQ Shiny" button in front of repair vendor or the skill in farming endlessly to pay the all-but-guaranteed-to-be-obscene price demands of someone who does.

This argument boils down to crafters not wanting to have to put the time in to earn next-to-BiS gear in order to challenge end-game. You don't want to run the content, you just want to spam the crafting buttons to shortcut yourself into that gear and then get paid to do it thereafter. Lazy.

I want more gear choices. I don't actually make money on the market. If you were to look at my crafting sets, they aren't melded... heck most of them aren't even all HQ. I leveled crafting to help people with gear for alts they were leveling. Now that everyone is done with that, my crafter side has been resigned to making food for raids. Getting materia up to craft 2-star gear for guildies just isn't worth it when they can easily get full DL in a week and be on to myth. The same is going to be true for the myth equivalent stuff. Having done Coil (with the exception of Turn 5), and having nearly BiS gear on my PLD (I'm missing 3 pieces from the list) I can say that getting dark light is FAR easier and requires way less work and attention than maxing out stats for materia on my gear (and who knows how much that would cost, or what the new needed stats would be).. heck, even getting myth pieces is far easier than the work I would need to put in to have the ability to craft stuff that's only marginally better (and only when penta-melded) than Darklight.

I want choices, I want stuff to be useful and not just sit there. I'm not actually out to make money. I would actually call all the folks who want tome gear to be BiS the lazy ones.

[Versiroth]

Snip, snipity

Where have I ever said that tome gear should be BiS? I'm completely fine with entry level/grindable tome gear/end game raid. I just don't think the tome grind should be skipable. What you suggest would put everyone at one level below BiS just by RMTing some gil. And the fact that people buy primal runs only proves that fact further. Not sure why you and the other person try to act like RMT isn't a factor here. It's really the primary factor.

Also, I think it's hilarious that some of you act like you don't want these changes due to your own selfishness and greed, lol. The fact is, that's the only reason you want to be able to make i100 gear. Because you know it would sell like crazy because it would allow people to skip months of grinding. Stop kidding yourself.

[Sunarie]

snip

Because designing a game with huge restrictions because of maybe RMT is bad? I'm not asking tome gear to be skippable. No one is. Just like people don't skip DL right now and get crafted stuff. I'm saying your scenario isn't going to happen.

[Akiva_Ninazu]

How is providing an alternative gear source further gating anything off? If anything it's adding more players to the mix. This is not BiS stuff we're talking here.. heck, even knowing that fully melded crafted gear is -better- that DL in a lot of cases, groups don't require the crafted gear. You're throwing up an argument about something that isn't going to happen.

Because the game should be about the skill in running *all* content, not the skill in hitting the "Make HQ Shiny" button in front of repair vendor or the skill in farming endlessly to pay the all-but-guaranteed-to-be-obscene price demands of someone who does.

This argument boils down to crafters not wanting to have to put the time in to earn next-to-BiS gear in order to challenge end-game. You don't want to run the content, you just want to spam the crafting buttons to shortcut yourself into that gear and then get paid to do it thereafter. Lazy.

[Speeral]

Because the game should be about the skill in running *all* content, not the skill in hitting the "Make HQ Shiny" button in front of repair vendor or the skill in farming endlessly to pay the all-but-guaranteed to be obscene price demands of someone who does.

This argument boils down to crafters not wanting to have to put the time in to earn next-to-BiS gear in order to challenge end-game. You don't want to run the content, you just want to spam the crafting buttons to shortcut yourself into that gear and then get paid to do it thereafter. Lazy.

No no one asked for that... you are making that up. Plus this is is an online game with content constantly coming out why does it matter anyways? Being able to craft gear that is decent to help you be more efficient in a dungeon is not bad. In DL you could do turns 1-4 with relative ease, people been doing that since October or sooner tbh. So how does that fit into your argument anyways... I80 and I90 gear just made that farming more efficient the only thing that slowed people down were the resets anyways. I seriously do not see your point.

[Akiva_Ninazu]

No no one asked for that... you are making that up. Plus this is is an online game with content constantly coming out why does it matter anyways? Being able to craft gear that is decent to help you be more efficient in a dungeon is not bad. In DL you could do turns 1-4 with relative ease, people been doing that since October or sooner tbh. So how does that fit into your argument anyways... I80 and I90 gear just made that farming more efficient the only thing that slowed people down were the resets anyways. I seriously do not see your point.

Oh, so if BIS was 110 and you were able to craft 100 and meld it, you're saying you wouldn't? You'd use tome items instead?

Riiiiiggghht. You'd buy the mats, regardless of price, and be wearing full crafted i100 by the end of the week.

[Speeral]

Oh, so if BIS was 110 and you were able to craft 100 and meld it, you're saying you wouldn't? You'd use tome items instead?

Riiiiiggghht. You'd buy the mats, regardless of price, and be wearing full crafted i100 by the end of the week.

ok to play devils advocate because you clearly aren't reading what crafters are posting anyways... So what if I did what did that do? I have to learn the content some way and some how anyways. Its a character in a game world which even if you minus out crafting still has 2 ways to get highest tier gear end of the day what does it matter, what does it break?

This is an online multiplayer game, end of the day people will find like minded people to play with who play at their pace anyways.

Some people play because they like to collect fictional money...
some play to explore...
long story short people have different playstyles what does it even matter how some one geared out for a fight? I think it matters more that they can actually play their role effectively, as opposed to the colour of the sprites.

[Versiroth]

Ok, what if they made it to where you could craft ilvl 100 items, but it required a special skill that had a 7 day reset timer. So, you could craft one single piece of ilvl 100 gear per week. Would you be ok with that?