Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

people dont mean no entry cap, they mean level scaling/sync cap, as in you are reduced to a max level appropriate to content.

But again this is going to limit playability. Max rank players are going to run 2-3 times until the content is complete then ignore them, where they could be farming it 10-15 times for gear that is mediocre. What scenario seems to have more reply appeal?

[Richard]

But again this is going to limit playability. Max rank players are going to run 2-3 times until the content is complete then ignore them, where they could be farming it 10-15 times for gear that is mediocre. What scenario seems to have more reply appeal?

for people who actually enjoy challenging games, the grind and SE's notoriously low drop rate, a sync'd cap + running it 10-15 times seems more appealing. I'd rather run content for a month than 1 day because then i'm going to be annoyed with no content. But hey if you like capping out on gear in a week and then waiting another 3 months for content - enjoy!

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

for people who actually enjoy challenging games, the grind and SE's notoriously low drop rate, a sync'd cap + running it 10-15 times seems more appealing. I'd rather run content for a month than 1 day because then i'm going to be annoyed with no content. But hey if you like capping out on gear in a week and then waiting another 3 months for content - enjoy!

This is your speculation based on your biased opinion. I guarantee that I will not run a r30 capped dungeon more than three times, no matter what the 'challenge' is. Once I beat it, the challenge is gone and all I have left is the question of whether or not I want to farm the dungeon for gear or mats and if all the gear and mats is for r30 jobs, I have no incentive to keep running it.

[Chinook]

I guarantee that I will not run a r30 capped dungeon more than three times, no matter what the 'challenge' is.

Get out of here then, why are you 3 fighting for something that you won't do ?

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Get out of here then, why are you 3 fighting for something that you won't do ?

Same old argument. I am fighting for something I WANT to do, and that is uncapped dungeons.

[Physic]

But again this is going to limit playability. Max rank players are going to run 2-3 times until the content is complete then ignore them, where they could be farming it 10-15 times for gear that is mediocre. What scenario seems to have more reply appeal?

like i said, the best answer is to make capped content, or content that tests primarily the skill of the player, have use across multiple levels, this makes it extremely replayable. Even more so than either of the other options. It shouldnt be the only form of progression, it should be an option. Look at Phantasy star online, Challenge mode was loved, and played numerous numerous times, it essentially featured capped content designed to be challenging and require team work, it was very popular, and highly entertaining. And it gave rewards that were usefull across a large level range.

essentially the point of these dungeons according to them was to create content that was challenging and required team work. Such a system should be difficult for all users, and reward people appropriately. I'll be honest, if they design these dungeons right, and give the right type of rewards, it could be the type of thing that people will want to play for a very long time, no matter what level it is.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

like i said, the best answer is to make capped content, or content that tests primarily the skill of the player, have use across multiple levels, this makes it extremely replayable. Even more so than either of the other options. It shouldnt be the only form of progression, it should be an option. Look at Phantasy star online, Challenge mode was loved, and played numerous numerous times, it essentially featured capped content designed to be challenging and require team work, it was very popular, and highly entertaining. And it gave rewards that were usefull across a large level range.

essentially the point of these dungeons according to them was to create content that was challenging and required team work. Such a system should be difficult for all users, and reward people appropriately. I'll be honest, if they design these dungeons right, and give the right type of rewards, it could be the type of thing that people will want to play for a very long time, no matter what level it is.

All I can do is point to my experience. I don't want to progress my r50 class through r30 content. It's unfair to expect me to do so when I suffered through bad SP parties and an empty world back when I WAS an r30. It's like saying, "Oh you didn't go to Pre-K? I'm sorry, You can't get your College diploma until you go back and repeat Pre-K." Likewise, I'm a 29 year old man. Pre-K is a drop in the bucket for me at my age because of my experience in life. It would be unfair to tell a 29 year old man that he has to go back and accomplish Pre-K first and that they are going to put me on all kinds of drugs to make me EXPERIENCE it as a 4 year old.

I'm not 4 years old anymore, I have graduated and moved on.

I am not r30 anymore, I have worked my way through that lack of content twice now, probably 3 times over by the time they release it. I have moved on.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

All I can do is point to my experience. I don't want to progress my r50 class through r30 content. It's unfair to expect me to do so when I suffered through bad SP parties and an empty world back when I WAS an r30. It's like saying, "Oh you didn't go to Pre-K? I'm sorry, You can't get your College diploma until you go back and repeat Pre-K." Likewise, I'm a 29 year old man. Pre-K is a drop in the bucket for me at my age because of my experience in life. It would be unfair to tell a 29 year old man that he has to go back and accomplish Pre-K first and that they are going to put me on all kinds of drugs to make me EXPERIENCE it as a 4 year old.

I'm not 4 years old anymore, I have graduated and moved on.

I am not r30 anymore, I have worked my way through that lack of content twice now, probably 3 times over by the time they release it. I have moved on.

Monkey, I will agree with you on that. Not putting a cap on dungeons is the sensible way to go if the content they provide is only relevant to the targeted level. Altho putting an optional cap would allow more freedom when it comes to help lower level player, but that isn't the point you are making.

I find that with your reasoning there would be, of course, no need for any cap. The point we are trying to make is that these set a predecedent to the future content. If everything they make is just shallow content with 0 depths to it and that we go through it in a matter of weeks then the game will get boring fast, and more and more boring as time goes by because there will be no replay value.

Of course I'm just assuming, I don't know what they planned to add aside from dungeons so I may be crying wolf for nothing. Maybe I will get my real content through missions, story fights and quests, idk. If this is all they planned to do with dungeons, then fine leave them be unccaped. I hope they do less shallow content in the future on top of additional dungeons so that there is actually a game to be worth playing.

[Eekiki]

Of course I'm just assuming, I don't know what they planned to add aside from dungeons so I may be crying wolf for nothing. Maybe I will get my real content through missions, story fights and quests, idk. If this is all they planned to do with dungeons, then fine leave them be unccaped. I hope they do less shallow content in the future on top of additional dungeons so that there is actually a game to be worth playing.

Exactamundo. Since these are WoW-style dungeons, let's compare with WoW (even though it's taboo).

If you log on with your level 80 (or whatever the max level is these days in WoW) character, and head to a Burning Crusade dungeon, you will find them deserted. Nobody runs them. Nobody even cares about the gear, 'cause all they care about at that point in the game is level 80 ASAP.

What we hope for is some incentive to run the R30 dungeon even when we're R50 (for example, there was a reason to run through the capped CoP missions even if you were level 75 before CoP was released). Therefore, if there is a reason for an R50 to run the R30 dungeon, it must be challenging for that R50, otherwise what's the point of having it in the first place?

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Exactamundo. Since these are WoW-style dungeons, let's compare with WoW (even though it's taboo).

If you log on with your level 80 (or whatever the max level is these days in WoW) character, and head to a Burning Crusade dungeon, you will find them deserted. Nobody runs them. Nobody even cares about the gear, 'cause all they care about at that point in the game is level 80 ASAP.

What we hope for is some incentive to run the R30 dungeon even when we're R50 (for example, there was a reason to run through the capped CoP missions even if you were level 75 before CoP was released). Therefore, if there is a reason for an R50 to run the R30 dungeon, it must be challenging for that R50, otherwise what's the point of having it in the first place?

The problem with your example is that CoP was a series of missions and quests that were meant to be progressed through. You had to do a r20 quest before you could do a r30 quest before you could do a r40 quest, ect. That is NOT the case here. You have a dungeon designed for r30 characters and is a stand-alone dungeon without tie ins to other content. There is no progression in the r30 dungeon for a r50 player and by capping it you are only making it 'artificially' challenging.