Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

[TheVedis]

people dont mean no entry cap, they mean level scaling/sync cap, as in you are reduced to a max level appropriate to content.

if its ok to reduce the levels why isnt it ok to raise them to meet the players(optionaly of course)
i am all for a difficulty slider still

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

people dont mean no entry cap, they mean level scaling/sync cap, as in you are reduced to a max level appropriate to content.

But again this is going to limit playability. Max rank players are going to run 2-3 times until the content is complete then ignore them, where they could be farming it 10-15 times for gear that is mediocre. What scenario seems to have more reply appeal?

[Lerris]

I'm all for it being uncapped. If you want challenge then go into it at the appropriate level, that's what I'll be doing. If you want to just power through the content or do it faster for drops, go on your 50's. Why does anyone care if a group of 50's decides to blow through the dungeon? It has no bearing on your enjoyment of the dungeon, unless you're some kind of child who hates seeing others accomplish things faster.

If they cap it then you're excluding people who actually played the game more since the start. People who got their combat classes to 35+ (which isn't THAT hard, I had to try not to) are being told "**** you, you leveled too much and you're not allowed in here!" Honestly I kept most of my classes where they are to avoid that just in case.

But again seriously, why do you care what other people do? Not directed at anyone in general but what does it matter if people breeze through the dungeon on 50s? Why does it make any kind of difference to you at all?

The advocates of a cap aren't arguing that at all. In FFXI, capping an area meant those who entered were temporarily reduced in level to the cap.

But, for all those who liked the system, those who didn't were louder, so I don't expect it to appear here.

[Physic]

if its ok to reduce the levels why isnt it ok to raise them to meet the players(optionaly of course)
i am all for a difficulty slider still

difficulty sliders serve no purpose if they dont also accompany a reward. that is basic. 95% of people will not set the difficulty of leves higher than 10 levels although it would be much more entertaining, because the reward doesnt reflect the effort.
Now if exp was uncapped, people would always be pushing themselves to be better for the increased rewards.

The essential idea, is that for some parts of a game, you need to reward challenge, without level caps, you can only do this in endgame situations, so you create something where all content until endgame is crap, and you create a system where increasing the cap HAS to make everything before it obsolete, because it becomes that much easier to obtain. Its bad game design.

[TheVedis]

difficulty sliders serve no purpose if they dont also accompany a reward. that is basic. 95% of people will not set the difficulty of leves higher than 10 levels although it would be much more entertaining, because the reward doesnt reflect the effort.
Now if exp was uncapped, people would always be pushing themselves to be better for the increased rewards.

The essential idea, is that for some parts of a game, you need to reward challenge, without level caps, you can only do this in endgame situations, so you create something where all content until endgame is crap, and you create a system where increasing the cap HAS to make everything before it obsolete, because it becomes that much easier to obtain. Its bad game design.

but you guys keep telling us the reward doesnt matter

you want a challenge

so theres your challenge, you can raise its level, giving people the option to regardless of rank


the difference between a slider and a cap is the cap isnt gonna be optional if they do it, the slider will be

[Perrin_Aybarra]

And deep down I think this is the main issue, though none of them will admit it.

I will honestly say that this is the least of my concerns, and you are free to believe me or not.

I really don't care if you want to steamroll content to obtain stuff for nothing and pretend you are skilled and that you went through content with your shear brillantness of your gameplay.

I care and replay value and giving everyone the option to go through content the way the dev designed it, allowing an optional cap would let high level help lower level go through older content and still let those people experience it the way it was meant to be (read challenging).

That is the main reason that I think is reason enough to give players at the very least the option of a cap. That said, I also think a cap would give the dev a lot more to build on than no cap. Things like reputations/currency/special drops.

[Richard]

But again this is going to limit playability. Max rank players are going to run 2-3 times until the content is complete then ignore them, where they could be farming it 10-15 times for gear that is mediocre. What scenario seems to have more reply appeal?

for people who actually enjoy challenging games, the grind and SE's notoriously low drop rate, a sync'd cap + running it 10-15 times seems more appealing. I'd rather run content for a month than 1 day because then i'm going to be annoyed with no content. But hey if you like capping out on gear in a week and then waiting another 3 months for content - enjoy!

[Arcell]

Having not played XI I wasn't aware of this XI exclusive level down cap feature. When I hear cap I think x-y, after that no dice.

I suppose that would be fine but again, why does anyone care so much what other people do? If I want to get 4 50's together and burn through the dungeon, what difference does it make to you?

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

difficulty sliders serve no purpose if they dont also accompany a reward. that is basic. 95% of people will not set the difficulty of leves higher than 10 levels although it would be much more entertaining, because the reward doesnt reflect the effort.
Now if exp was uncapped, people would always be pushing themselves to be better for the increased rewards.

The essential idea, is that for some parts of a game, you need to reward challenge, without level caps, you can only do this in endgame situations, so you create something where all content until endgame is crap, and you create a system where increasing the cap HAS to make everything before it obsolete, because it becomes that much easier to obtain. Its bad game design.

To which our argument is that there shouldn't be anything in a r30 dungeon that a r50 should need. By your argument the CHALLENGE of a r30 capped dungeon will never equal the REWARD for a r50 who doesn't need r30 gear.

To which your argument will be: Well there may be useful things in the r30 dungeon for r50s.

To which I will argue that it is unreasonable to put r50 gear or even r50 comparable gear in a dungeon 20 levels below r50. Why not just put the r50 gear in content designed for r50, rather than stuffing it in mid level content.

This is why we are going around in circles. There is no clear winner/loser. No right/wrong. There is only differing opinions.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

but you guys keep telling us the reward doesnt matter

you want a challenge

so theres your challenge, you can raise its level, giving people the option to regardless of rank


the difference between a slider and a cap is the cap isnt gonna be optional if they do it, the slider will be

cap can be optional too you know. The slider is stupid really, it serves no purpose if the reward is the same, no one will voluntarily handicap themselves, all it does is make the content last a little bit longer if you want to SP in it. Also a slider doesn't allow high level to go help lower level player, it exclude them even more and divide people even more. Optional cap is way better than a slider, and I hope that you see that.